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Thread: crampon compatible

  1. #1
    Widdler
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    Hi, I will be doing some very occasional winter walking, mainly in the lake district and Moffat. I may also get a trip up to the arrocher alps fitted in at some point. The boots I have at the minute are Salomon cosmic 4d, with they take a flexible crampon for occasional use ofshort periods, I don't want to spend 250- 300 quid on New boots that arnt going to get much use.

  2. #2
    Goon Rod MacDonald's Avatar
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    They're probably fine with something like kahtoolas but probably not usable with grivel g10s or the like.

    If you'd prefer,why not get some second hand meindl Burma's or similar.

  3. #3
    ‹bermensch pete-rbg's Avatar
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    I'd echo Rod's suggestion with regard to the flexible Kahtoola crampons.

    If they're a bit more dosh than you can justify spending for occasional winter walking, then their Micro-Spikes are another good option for fitting on your 4Ds. Not quite as sure-footed as crampons, but they do a good job for less severe conditions.

    I've also used cheaper versions of micro-spikes, but found them inferior. For example, a link in the chain opened up sufficiently for it to come away from the rest of the linkage and, consequently, rendered the spikes useless until I put them in a vice back at home!

  4. #4
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    The Kahtoola steel crampons are good for most winter walking, but the microspikes are a bit more limiting imo. They can roll off the foot, or slide to one side, on steep ground. They have their place, but the crampons would be my recommendation.

  5. #5
    Widdler
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    The kathoolas look good bit more than I was wanting to spend tho, have seen some by a company called singing rock that say they can be fitted to softer boots anybody any idea what they are like, I have a singing rock ice axe and it seems good quality think they are Yugoslavian, sold some stuff on sports pursuit web site, also seen some 2nd hand Mountain technology nevis ones on ebay that look ok.

  6. #6
    Widdler
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    Climbing technology not mountain sorry

  7. #7
    ‹bermensch pete-rbg's Avatar
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    I don't know of the Singing Rock and a quick google shows them in several different flavours. Which version were you thinking of sleddog? Similarly, I don't know of the Climbing Technology crampons either.

    Apologies if you're already aware of this (I don't mean to sound patronising), but traditional thought says there are two features you'll need for crampons to work with your Salomon 4Ds:

    The central bar needs to have some flex in it to move with the flex of your boot, otherwise your boot might put too much strain on the bar. However, I know some people use flexible boots (B0) with C1 crampons (see thread here).

    The toe and heel fitting (binding) needs to have a plastic harness and strap system because the 4Ds won't fit any other system.

    Some of the crampons made by the companies you mention don't appear to have either of these features.

    These North Ridge Snowline crampons, made by Grivel, might be worth considering. I think Grivel also sell a flexi bar which can be fitted to some of their other crampons, too.

    I still think you'll be fine using micro-spikes for general snow hill walking.
    Here's another thread discussion on a the subject.

  8. #8
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    Just be aware that that parts of some routes on the Arrochar Alps can be a bit 'rugged and may require something with front points

    Descending off Beinn Narnain directly down to Loch Long for example.

    You should be fine most of the time but choose your routes carefully.

  9. #9
    Super Moderator Metric Kate's Avatar
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    Kahtoola crampons can actually do a lot - Matt C got up the headwall of Coire an Sneachda in a pair, though thought they were absolutely on their limit. I wouldn't recommend trying that!

    But personally I'd be happy using a pair of G10s with a flexi-bar on a pair of reasonably sturdy B0 boots.

  10. #10
    Widdler
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    Pete-rbg the singing rock ones were the fakir model flexible bars and plastic. Cradles

  11. #11
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    The Fakir crampon looks to me like a fairly standard 10 point walking crampon which in theory should be used with a B1 boot -- something like the Scarpa SL. Some crampons of this kind, like the Grivel Monte Rosa and G10, can be used with rather softer boots, although the manufacturers don't recommend it. However, I'd be very reluctant to pair an "unknown quantity" like the Fakir with a softish boot. It might work, it might not.

    Ditto with the Climbing Technology crampons, really. They're well enough made, from what I've seen of them, but not really meant for use with soft boots or shoes, unlike the Kahtoola steel crampons.

  12. #12
    Widdler
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    Thanks everyone for all the input always good to get others opinions, one other thing, anybody any experience with those cheap Chinese crampons on ebay the ones about ??30 not the ??14 ones

  13. #13
    ‹bermensch pete-rbg's Avatar
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    sleddog, I've sent you a personal message with a link you might be interested in

  14. #14
    Widdler
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    Thanks for that, you've all been very helpful

  15. #15
    Ultra King Peter Clinch's Avatar
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    Have just bought the Wee Bear some boots in Tiso's sale (Hi Tec one of the few things that seem to fit her feet) so she can get out and indulge her hillwalking when trainers not really up to snuff (she hasn't yet got the stamina to just keep moving to keep her feet warm when it's cold and wet), and this thread makes me wonder about crampons for them...

    Anyone have any comments on the relative merits of the aluminium vs. steel KTS (I'm guessing faster wearing, lighter, not so grippy and not so trippy for the aluminium, but first hand experience would be welcome), and reasons why they may be better than G10s (I use G10 Ws on my tele boots, so I'm fairly familiar with those).

    Pete.

  16. #16
    Ultra King alexander rae's Avatar
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    This keeps appearing on my fb page, just thought I'd mention it.

  17. #17
    ‹bermensch
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Clinch View Post

    Have just bought the Wee Bear some boots in Tiso's sale (Hi Tec one of the few things that seem to fit her feet) so she can get out and indulge her hillwalking when trainers not really up to snuff (she hasn't yet got the stamina to just keep moving to keep her feet warm when it's cold and wet), and this thread makes me wonder about crampons for them...

    Anyone have any comments on the relative merits of the aluminium vs. steel KTS (I'm guessing faster wearing, lighter, not so grippy and not so trippy for the aluminium, but first hand experience would be welcome), and reasons why they may be better than G10s (I use G10 Ws on my tele boots, so I'm fairly familiar with those).

    Pete.
    When I bought a pair of the Kahtoola steel crampons at Needlesports a couple of years ago I also looked at the ali version, and it struck me they weren't that much lighter -- certainly not by enough to justify their propensity to become blunt quite quickly, which the assistant in the shop warned me about. The spikes on the steel version are actually quite short, and I've never felt in danger of tripping up on them, and nor has my 11-year-old son, who's stepped into them after he grew out of his Hillsound Trail Crampons (leaving me to use B2 boots and step-in crampons). BTW the Hillsounds were a good option, being, I feel, a lot more stable and versatile than the Microspikes. I now have a pair of the Hillsounds going spare, if you're interested.

    Re the G10s, I'd say the flex bar is very similar to that on the Kahtoolas, but I think the strapping system on the latter is more forgiving on soft footwear. Also the spikes on the Kahtoola seem a bit shorter, so are not as prone to cause trips.

  18. #18
    Ultra King Peter Clinch's Avatar
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    Thanks Guy, good info. Think the steel KTS is looking the way to go when she needs more than Microspikes.

    Did have a look in Tiso's at their not quite G10s. Pretty good, but I guess the same will go for them compared to the KTS. Their basic walking axe seemed a very nice bit of kit.

    Pete.

  19. #19
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    To me, those Tiso crampons look very much like the Grivel Monte Rosas, which are basically G10s with a slightly less glossy finish. The axe is our old friend the Grivel Munro, as also sold by Go under their house brand.

  20. #20
    Ultra King Matt C's Avatar
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    I think Guy's covered everything I was going to say - based on me having both KTS steel and a pair of Grivel G12s with the G10 flexi-bars retro-fitted.

    I'd definitely go for KTS steel over alu, as not only will alu blunt quicker but the points are a little shorter than on the steel version (0.75" vs 1") and the front points are less aggressive. Basically the alus will reach their limit a lot sooner and I suspect may not offer a sufficient performance benefit over microspikes to justify the cost.

    Some of the same applies between KTS steel and G10/12s - the grivels have longer points and better front points, so work better on water ice and steeper ground, but the KTS are lower and easier to walk in, and much more compact and lighter for carrying.

    In the end it's a judgement about the terrain you want/need to handle, but I tend to carry the KTS far more than the Grivels. (I do reckon the KTS were on their limit (I thought once or twice they might be beyond it!) climbing out of Coire an t'Sneachda.)


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