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Thread: Talkback: Ten Most Dangerous British Mountains

  1. #21
    Goon
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    It's a weighing of probabilities that I'm not sure I know enough about.

    Apparently, in 2012, slips/trips were the main types of accident, followed by getting lost, then falls. The online MRT figures are ambiguous with regards to causality and don't suggest anything about preparedness, or competence.

  2. #22
    Ultra King Parky Again's Avatar
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    Giant boot sale is bad English. I assumed that as everyone knows they died, what they were doing was important in that tragedy - rather than theEnglish construction- especially in view of the topic subject.

    There was a sensible quote from the MRT about not having the right clothes or shoes not being a major factor in accidents. Anyone can slip and hurt themsleves. The more experienced are likely to do that in more remote locations than the out for a stroll people.

  3. #23
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    "In July last year it was believed that three soldiers perished during a SAS selection process."

    What may be wrong is the sentence needs a comma, to make better understanding of what was meant.

    'in July last year it was believed that three soldiers perished, during a SAS selection process.'

    Or possibly, if had used 'died', instead of "perished". Even if they mean the same thing.

  4. #24
    Ultra King That bastard Skip's Avatar
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    Or the writer could make the meaning clearer by writing clearly. This might be one way of rephrasing it: "In July last year three soldiers died. It is believed they were taking part in an SAS selection process."

    However, why does the OM item uses the phrase "it was believed" at all? A quick google reveals plenty of news items (including from the BBC) that state Lance Corporal Craig John Roberts, Lance Corporal Edward John Maher and Corporal James Dunsby collapsed and died on the then-hottest day of the year while participating in a training exercise as part of the SAS selection process.

    That ""it was believed" phrase may be there because the writer simply rehashed Wikipedia material. The Wikipedia article says with unecessay caution: "The mountain is used ... as part of the selection process of the UK's Special Forces personnel. Four soldiers who collapsed and subsequently died in July 2013 were believed to have been climbing the mountain...while undergoing such SAS selection" (my empaphis).


    Turning to the wider issue, I agree that there is ambiguity and room for argument - some hills attract different levels of skill and experience, some are more popular than others, some have easier access, and accidents can happen anywhere.However, IMO some mountain routes are intrinsically more dangerous than others, if only because they are less forgiving of error. There are places where it's best not to fall down the landscape.

    A slip or stumble on a broad grassy path on a gentle gradient will rarely be more than an inconvenience whereas a slip or stumble on the exposed section of a knife-edge arete could have serious consequences.

  5. #25
    Ultra King Matt C's Avatar
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    "In July last yearthree soldiers perished during what was believed to be a SAS selection process."

    The first part is fact, the second part is open to question. You could even add a comma after perished if you like.



    Edit: crossed with Skip's post

  6. #26
    ‹bermensch Taz's Avatar
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    Last Saturday we walked up from the A5 towards Llyn Cowlyn (Carneddau, Wales). Looking towards Pen yr Helgi Ddu we both recalled how tricky the path is to Carnedd Llewellyn in bad weather (in my case very windy conditions).

    Last Sunday, an experienced and well kitted-out walker/climber had slipped and fallen on that very section, sustaining serious injuries, he did not survive.

    It made us think of how vulnerable and unlucky we can be even when well prepared and experienced.

    Tryfan always seems to attract a fair few call outs, I've seen the big yellow bird fly over a few times myself when over that way, witnessed one very tricky rescue.

  7. #27
    Widdler
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    They died during SAS selection, no 'believed' about it, it's undisputed fact! Anyway, back to the original subject!

  8. #28
    Ultra King Martin Carpenter's Avatar
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    Sane. Anyway, I really don't think you can put deaths from heatstroke/dehyradtion etc down to specific hills. Not in Britain, different in deserts of course.

  9. #29
    Ultra King
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay parsons 3 View Post

    They died during SAS selection, no 'believed' about it, it's undisputed fact! Anyway, back to the original subject!
    The MOD has never said that the soldiers where on a SAS selection course. So therefore, it isn't "undisputed", but 'speculated'. It's probablymore likely they where training for it, by themselves, or would not have been "allowed" to get that bad,but unless MOD says it was a selection course, it can not be called "undisputed".
    If you find the SAS part on the MOD Army website, you will see that July is not a time that selection usually occurs.

  10. #30
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    I don't know if I'm alone in this but my attitude to risk is to become more cautious as the risks due to hazards increases. If I were to do the cuillins I'd use a guide despite having the experience to do it on my own. I'd never use a guide up Farleton Knott. I have twisted an ankle on the latter which probably demonstrates my complacency with the safe/easy hill.

    I think dangerous hill lists are a matter of perception. There are so m

  11. #31
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    I don't know if I'm alone in this but my attitude to risk is to become more cautious as the risks due to hazards increases. If I were to do the cuillins I'd use a guide despite having the experience to do it on my own. I'd never use a guide up Farleton Knott. I have twisted an ankle on the latter which probably demonstrates my complacency with the safe/easy hill.

    I think dangerous hill lists are a matter of perception. There are so many factors.

  12. #32
    Widdler
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    Back in the 1990s when I lived in South Wales I was a regular visitor to the Beacons especially Pe Y Fan.
    It's nearly 3000ft in height and attracts some of the most adverse weather conditions in Southern Britain.
    Go unprepared as many so called walkers appear to be doing these days and Pen Y Fan is a killer mountain.
    I can remember on numerous occasions crawling on all fours trying to get to the summit.
    I now live in North Wales and nowhere have I encountered stronger winds than on the ridge between Corn Ddu and Pen Y Fan.

  13. #33
    Widdler
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    Is the order of mountains featured here in order of the number of accidents (or is it fatalities?) according to mountain rescue groups or just the "Top 10" in an old order? I think the only possibly surprising missing ones are The Cobbler and Liathach.

  14. #34
    Widdler
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    Paste or click the link to read the stats. for Sharp Edge.

    http://www.keswickmrt.org.uk/rescues/sharp_edge.htm

    65 Cragfast
    35 Injured
    10 Killed

    The cleanest rock is on the crest where there is the greatest exposure. Those seeking to avoid such exposure should avoid the route altogether as the "chicken run" traverse path on the north side ends in a couple of dirty grooves at "The Neck" ( the point where the horizontal edge meets the head wall.

    ?Climb if you will, but remember that courage and strength are nought without prudence ??

  15. #35
    Widdler
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    Paste or click the link to read the stats. for Sharp Edge.

    http://www.keswickmrt.org.uk/rescues/sharp_edge.htm

    65 Cragfast
    35 Injured
    10 Killed

    The cleanest rock is on the crest where there is the greatest exposure. Those seeking to avoid such exposure should avoid the route altogether as the "chicken run" traverse path on the north side ends in a couple of dirty grooves at "The Neck" ( the point where the horizontal edge meets the head wall.

    ?Climb if you will, but remember that courage and strength are nought without prudence ??

  16. #36
    Widdler
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    Changeable weather is a hazard anywhere high up in the UK.
    Blackspots correlate with volume of visitors. More rugged, more remote peaks like An Teallach, Liatach and the Cuillin are intrinsically much more dangerous but avoid the Blackspot label because, though popular with mountaineers, they are seldom visited by ill-equipped wallies.

  17. #37
    Ultra King Parky Again's Avatar
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    Define ill equipped. By your definition there are a lot of quite famous mountaineers who are wallies.

    or...what has equipment got to do with anything...or...

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