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Thread: Talkback: Stanage Causeway Resurfacing Lunacy

  1. #21
    Super Moderator Jon Doran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinder View Post

    Routes used regularly by 4x4s and trail bikes just seem to be more eroded than others, why would that be?

    Are you implying that because you feel that vehicular users are contributing to erosion problems they should be banned? If thats the way the system was worked, none of us would be allowed to go anywhere.

    I agree about the waste of money and resources in the article but why must it always end up being another opportunity to discredit responsible vehicular users?
    I'm implying that off-road vehicular recreation creates a disproportionate amount of erosion - you don't presumably believe that that's the case?

    I accept that there's a legal right for vehicles to use tracks which are technically roads, even if I think the rationalisation behind it is bonkers. But what I don't accept is that it's reasonable for Stanage Causeway to be basically levelled in a way which is completely inappropriate to the surrounding environment.

    I've asked Derbyshire County Council for more detailed information on who did actually instigate 'a legal challenge' and more generally which user groups they think will be happy with a totally smooth surface.

    There's a bit of 'the track had to be destroyed so it could be preserved going on here'.


  2. #22
    Widdler
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    Jon I agree that some users cause a disproportionate level of erosion on routes, Bridleway and footpaths included. The authority though has a duty to maintain the route to a standard suitable for the expected level of traffic. This though is sadly lacking on some routes, until they reach such a poor state they require drastic action to bring to route back into serviceable condition. There are many options available to the authority such as weight and width restrictions, seasonal closures and peak time management that could be used to help reduce the conflict between different user groups. All the alternative options the motor user groups have agreed would be a suitable compromise rather than a complete ban.

    (ope the spelin is corect )

  3. #23
    ‹bermensch Moonlight Shadow's Avatar
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    The authorities are skint, there is no money...it's being wasted so that a tiny minority of big boys with big toys can go and play out their Camel advert fantasy.




  4. #24
    Widdler
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    Moonlight shadow can you tell how much is spent on the footpath/Bridleway network on repairs and creation of new routes? How much was and is being budgeted for on Kinder alone, that is just a footpath!

    vehicular user groups didn't ask for or want such an extensive repair.

    big boys toys? Do you catch the bus and walk everywhere in the National Parks?

  5. #25
    Ultra King
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinder View Post



    big boys toys? Do you catch the bus and walk everywhere in the National Parks?

    er, you're on a hiking/walking site Kinder so the answer probably is yes. It would be for me.

  6. #26
    Widdler
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    er, you're on a hiking/walking site Kinder so the answer probably is yes. It would be for me

    As most people I have met that complain don't actually practice what they preach, your reply is very pleasing to hear.


  7. #27
    Super Moderator captain paranoia's Avatar
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    It's interesting that this topic repeatedly causes new users to appear and post. I note that we have two such users on this thread (both pro 4x4), and one anti on the reply thread...

    Are these converted lurkers, or people who trawl the web looking for the issue?

  8. #28
    Widdler
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    I don't trawl the web looking for conflict, life is far too short for that nonsense! This site was posted as a link on another forum. As it looks to be a very informative site for my other interests, I probably will visit more often and hopefully contribute as an outdoor enthusiast

  9. #29
    ‹bermensch Jim Parkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Doran View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kinder View Post

    Routes used regularly by 4x4s and trail bikes just seem to be more eroded than others, why would that be?

    Are you implying that because you feel that vehicular users are contributing to erosion problems they should be banned? If thats the way the system was worked, none of us would be allowed to go anywhere.

    I agree about the waste of money and resources in the article but why must it always end up being another opportunity to discredit responsible vehicular users?
    I'm implying that off-road vehicular recreation creates a disproportionate amount of erosion - you don't presumably believe that that's the case?

    I accept that there's a legal right for vehicles to use tracks which are technically roads, even if I think the rationalisation behind it is bonkers. But what I don't accept is that it's reasonable for Stanage Causeway to be basically levelled in a way which is completely inappropriate to the surrounding environment.

    I've asked Derbyshire County Council for more detailed information on who did actually instigate 'a legal challenge' and more generally which user groups they think will be happy with a totally smooth surface.

    There's a bit of 'the track had to be destroyed so it could be preserved going on here'.
    Indeed.

    Due to the legal problems I wonder whether the solution should be to put on a limit for the axle weight that would be appropriate to preserve the surface just as some other roads have.



    About 50kg would probably cause little erosion.

  10. #30
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    My view on 4x4 enthusiats was formed largely as a result of two encounters I've had in the hills. The first was with a family of four in a Landcruiser who were driving along a track above Dent and declined to take the advice a friend and I gave that the way ahead was more than axle deep in mud and quite impassable. They drove on, and could be seen for some time after trying to extricate their vehicle at just the point we'd warned of.

    The second was with two blokes who'd driven a short wheelbase Landrover along a very high track above Durisdeer in wintry conditions and got stuck on an ice pan. Turned out one had a broken leg, in plaster, before they'd set out, while the other couldn't operate the winch they had with them for such situations. We tried to push them off the ice but failed, and ended up calling the mountain rescue out for the sake of the bloke with the broken leg who couldn't walk out.

    This thread has rather reinforced my view.

  11. #31
    Mini Goon
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    The reality is that the resurfacing was carried out at the behest of the horseriding and walking communities.

    Folk will always complain about the state of a track...no matter what state it's in.

  12. #32
    Ultra King Kinley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Hurst View Post

    This thread has rather reinforced my view.

    It's certainly done nothing to dim my look of confused awe at the barkingly mad setup you lot have south of the Border.

  13. #33
    Widdler
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    The route is a ROAD!! How can you criticise the Highways Authority,
    for carrying out their duty of repair and maintenance?

  14. #34
    Mini Goon
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    Although it may be his first post he was at the public meeting and has reported what he heard, I assume honestly if not he will be corrected by someone.

    There are many footpaths in the Peak District in a worse state as he says, e.g. Hollins Cross to Edale.

    A few years ago there was no erosion at the parking area at Stanage near Overstones farm. Now there are tracks everywhere, I assume this is open access land?

    Access is a difficult question, for me the paths were far better, less evident/eroded when I first started walking in the 60s in The Peak District, perhaps what we have now is called evolution?

    Perhaps I am a grumpy old git, I don't agree with what some of the users in the Peak District are doing but if they have a right to be doing whatever they do, why should I complain? The Peak District is a big enough place so I can go somewhere else. No doubt some of them dislike what I do.

  15. #35
    ‹bermensch Moonlight Shadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinder View Post

    Moonlight shadow can you tell how much is spent on the footpath/Bridleway network on repairs and creation of new routes? How much was and is being budgeted for on Kinder alone, that is just a footpath!

    vehicular user groups didn't ask for or want such an extensive repair.

    big boys toys? Do you catch the bus and walk everywhere in the National Parks?

    I catch the train to go for walks, yes. I can't drive. Sometimes I get a lift, we drive on the many roads in the PD, be great if at least on the hills we could be away from traffic you know...

  16. #36
    Widdler
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    Moonlight, if go out walking I plan my routes to avoid traffic. It's actually unbelievably easy to do as the network of footpaths is vast in relation to bridleways and vehicular routes. the scope for motor users is very limited, contrary to what is said on the peak park web site stating possibly being over 300 routes (the real figure is less than half that amount)

    do people complain about horses and bikes on a Bridleway? It would appear common sense to me that if I'm on a road I would expect to see vehicles and as long as it is being used with consideration for other users its not a real problem.

  17. #37
    Ultra King Parky Again's Avatar
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    Horses, bikes and walkers do not prevent usgae by other horses, bikes and wlkers so any comparison, and referral to hese users is quite pointless and irrelevant. 4x4 users cause damage that prevents the use by non 4x4 vehicles. You've already agreed that his should not be allowed.

  18. #38
    ‹bermensch Jim Parkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinder View Post



    do people complain about horses and bikes on a Bridleway? It would appear common sense to me that if I'm on a road I would expect to see vehicles and as long as it is being used with consideration for other users its not a real problem.
    With you on this. However on my local BOATs (The Roych and Chapel Gate, for example) there is a lack of consideration for others as parts of the routes are not suitable for motor vehicles - whatever the legal situation.

    The Chapel Gate to the Roych stretch along Rushup Edge is particularly bad, where the track is so degraded (with oily pools) and 4x4 tyre ruts that lots of 4x4 drivers have gone right off the road onto the soft ground, ripping that up too.

    In other words I see plenty of evidence of a lackof consideration for other motorised or non-motorised users from a significant number of the 4x4 users of these routes.

  19. #39
    Widdler
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    The Chapel Gate to the Roych stretch along Rushup Edge is particularly bad, where the track is so degraded (with oily pools) and 4x4 tyre ruts that lots of 4x4 drivers have gone right off the road onto the soft ground, ripping that up too.

    thats something you must agree all users do. I haven't seen many folk walking through puddles on purpose! Apart from children testing their new welly's

    That is where a little maintenance wouldn't go amiss, all routes inclusive




  20. #40
    ‹bermensch Jim Parkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinder View Post

    The Chapel Gate to the Roych stretch along Rushup Edge is particularly bad, where the track is so degraded (with oily pools) and 4x4 tyre ruts that lots of 4x4 drivers have gone right off the road onto the soft ground, ripping that up too.

    thats something you must agree all users do. I haven't seen many folk walking through puddles on purpose! Apart from children testing their new welly's

    That is where a little maintenance wouldn't go amiss, all routes inclusive
    A rule of thumb for wheeled vehicles is that damage to a road surface increases roughly to the fourth power of axel weight, in other words a Landrover discovery with a Kerb weight of 2000kg would cause 160,000 times the damage of a 100kg mountain bike and rider. The damage is predominantly caused by the motor vehicles.

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