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Thread: Right, wrong or so what?

  1. #1
    Übermensch Bedouin's Avatar
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    A hypothetical situation.....

    You need a new sleeping bag so after loads of looking around you decide to buy a £430 Mountain Hardwear Spectre SL. A local retailer has one in stock which you buy. Pleased as punch you set out the following weekend for a wild camp in some snowy location only to find another person with the same idea. You get talking and much to both of your surprise the other bloke is also using his brand new Spectre SL sleeping bag. You get yours out and give it a good shake and compare its whiteness to the snow around you. The other bloke looks at you a bit funny and gets HIS Spectre out and to your surprise its Emerald Green.

    It transpires that the local shop you bought it off stock was 2 year old and wanted to get rid of that before ordering in the new stock. You on the other hand had assumed that you were buying the latest model.

    So is this right, wrong, or so what?

    I do have a slight interest in the above but I'm making no comment either way on my question above.

  2. #2
    Initiate Weevil's Avatar
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    snowy white is nicer than pissy green

  3. #3
    Goon
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    It depends on to what extent the two models are different, but I would hope that the retailer would make it more obvious if a model was the old make.

  4. #4
    Übermensch Salmon Shirted Panther's Avatar
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    It is right. The shopkeeper has done nothing wrong.

    People who still buy things from shops (and I'm sure there are still some) should expect to encounter this. Don't they know a shop is where you go to see things in the flesh before going home to order it online?

    The thing is though Bedders, the hypotherical buyer above could have bought a two year old sleeping bag out of stock from an online supplier too.

    Anyway, back to the hypothetical story above; did they both have a good nights sleep?

  5. #5
    Super Moderator Metric Kate's Avatar
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    Is there any difference in the specs?

  6. #6
    Ultra King Parky Again's Avatar
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    If the two models are essentiall the same so what?

    If you got a good discount on it then so what - you get what you pay for. Tough luck.

    If your comparator was the same price and the latest spec - so what.

    Caveat emptor.

    Finally, don't mislead the jury. How much did you pay for it? It certainly wasn't £430.



  7. #7
    Übermensch Bedouin's Avatar
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    >Is there any difference in the specs
    Would it matter?

    >If you got a good discount on it then so what
    No, full retail

    >Caveat emptor.
    Do you feel that consumers should approach all transactions with 'they're gonna rip me off'

    >The shopkeeper has done nothing wrong.
    Legally correct but morally?




  8. #8
    Übermensch
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    "Legally correct but morally?"

    So long as the bag did what it was supposed to and hadn't suffered during storage (very unlikely with a down bag in just two years imo) then I don't see the issue. Different matter if it had been stored damp and the down had gone mouldy.

  9. #9
    Ultra King Parky Again's Avatar
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    How have they ripped you off? You got the sleeping bag. Why did you choose that retailer over the others that sell it?

    Same specs same product - you tell us why they're different. A different colour doesn't really count does it. Unless you had your heart set on a green one.

    How has the shopkeeper been morally incorrect? Why are you morally correct?

  10. #10
    Ultra King
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    Does the sleeping bag work like you'd expect a £430 sleeping bag to work?? Would a £330 sleeping bag with similar specs not be better in the first place?? Why is it worth £430? Can't you get something as good cheaper?? Seems a lot.

    Is it not your role to look into things a bit before you shop and then assess how far you can trust a shop assistant? If it is not deliberately misleading that is.

    Still, did you get a good bag despite it being old model? Also was it just a change in colours offered in the newer version or a tech spec change to the better?? It is not unknown to find new versions heavier than old ones without sufficient benefit in the "improvements".

  11. #11
    Übermensch Bedouin's Avatar
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    O.K the full story behind this is that I recently bought a Mountain Hardwear Banshee SL as I wanted a bag that would be a bit better in less cold weather than the Ghost SL.

    Having spent a few nights in it I find its a fantastic bag but would prefer a slightly less warm bag. For whatever reason MH price their bags in the UK as £=$ making them hugely expensive. My Banshee came from the US where it was discounted in a sale making it a bargain (need to check but around £275? against a UK of £520)

    My first thought was to sell the Banshee used and get a Spectre. UK price is £460 in Long or $460. In the UK these are specialist product so rarely come up in a sale and even then you only get a small discount. Looking to the US I can get one for about £250... perfect. Yet it struck me how all the US dealers automatically tell you the year when its an old/discontinued model hence the discounted price. check out REI or Backcountry.com. One major UK outdoor chain is selling what appears to be a Spectre as current that was discontinued in 2007 according to Backcountry.com

    When I was looking for what turned out to be the Ghost the same company tried to flog me an old north face bag and only came clean when I directly challenged them on it. I've also had other instances where UK dealers are less than forthcoming about selling old/discontinued/last years stock as current.

    Do consumers have a right to know?

  12. #12
    Mini Goon
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    I would feel very bad about it and so would most people if they were honest.

    I am sure legally the shop has done nothing wrong but new models generally bring improvements. Not so bad if you just picked it off the shelf and took it to the till, terrible if you discussed the purchase with them first and they neglected to mention it.

    2 years out of date I would feel very bad about it and never shop there again. And I would tell everyone else I knew about it too.

  13. #13
    Übermensch Bedouin's Avatar
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    TP you make some very good points but If the dealer knows that its an old/discontinued model then I'd argue that thats a material fact the customer needs/should be told about.

    I'm trying to gauge peoples thoughts on how they would feel about finding out that the 'new' bit of kit they bought isn't the latest version.

  14. #14
    Ultra King Parky Again's Avatar
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    So what's the difference between the old and new model?

    Why do you need to know if it's a current model?


  15. #15
    Ultra King Parky Again's Avatar
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    Have you approached the shop who sold it to you???????
    What do they say?
    Perhaps come back when you have.

  16. #16
    Übermensch Bedouin's Avatar
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    I've only just today been looking into this so can't say at the moment what or even if there are any differences other than the colour but I don't find the statement "2007 Model No Longer Available" on a US web very comforting when the UK dealer it appears is tacitly flogging them as current.

  17. #17
    Mini Goon
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    FWIW, I would EXPECT a good discount on an older model and pay the current price for the newer one, however, what ARE the differences in spec?.

  18. #18
    Übermensch Bedouin's Avatar
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    As i said no idea at the moment but I would expect that a bag discontinued in 2007 would have had more than just a colour change.

    Out of interest would you expect to be told that your not buying the current model or do you think its your responsibility to ask?

  19. #19
    Ultra King
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    The salesman probably thought `well here's someone with more money than sense'

    Did you look and fondle it, go ooh and aagh and say it's lovely?

    They should have told you and you should have asked.

    I think it's a lesson learn't. In future do your homework before you purchase.

  20. #20
    Goon
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    When I bought me waterproof jacket, the man in the shop made it clear that it was an end of line item and that he'd found it in the stock room and put it on sale. It was good to know this, but I checke dthe jacket over and it was as good as new.

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