Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Talkback: Monday Tip - Hydration Basics

  1. #1
    Ultra King Parky Again's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    14,005


    "Bad news for coffee and beer lovers is that caffeine and alcohol are both diuretic, so should be avoided on the hill. "

    what total, utter and disgraceful blx. caffeine, yet again with mind numbing regularity, has been proven to have no relevant effect on you. workers for countless centuries drank only alcohol (beer/cider) all day whatever the weather and whatever non-stop gruelling physical labourthey were doing. draw your own conclusions.

    5% dehydration is ? well? it must mean something other than a useless non-contextual percentage? well... 3.75 litres if you weigh 75 kg. i think you would notice if you had sweat that much - unless of course you are working really, really hard in which case you should already know about this

    or, of course, make sure you drink far too much water for the equally nasty effects and death that follows such a course...

    i'm sure common sense much feature somewhere in all this...

    hang on...isn't water a diuretic?

  2. #2
    Ultra King Frum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    19,193

  3. #3
    Initiate
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    877
    drinking plenty is supposed to help adaption to altitude therefore reducing altitude sickness. Drinking easily drunk things like hot tea and coffee is recommended because people tend to drink more than when takingsips of cold water. The diuretic effect is not so important. I do not think anyone recommends alcohol for altitude adaption. I suspect it still gets drunk. It seems to be the flushing effect that helps adaption to altitude by allowing the body to rebalance electrolyte levels. On that basis any fluid is better than none. Diuretic fluids should be fine, although I up there I won't be taking alcohol.

  4. #4
    Ultra King Frum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    19,193
    I think "5% dehydration" means a reduction of 5% in the amount of water, not 5% of body weight.

    So Parky 1 - Jon 1.

  5. #5
    Ultra King Frum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    19,193
    <a href='http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/propertyyou.html' target='_blank' rel='nofollow'>.
    </a>

  6. #6
    Goon Bryan Mclaughlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    292
    I think the tea/coffee as as meaningful diuretic has been disproven. Iirc this was even reported in trail.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19774754

  7. #7
    Ultra King Parky Again's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    14,005


    isn't the body something very high in the percent stakes made of water? 90%?

    if it isn't it then makes the5% even more of a bs figure as it therefore acquires absolutely no meaning at all.

    and how much more should you NOT drink to avoid the dangers inherent in that?

    good grief. trail reporting some real facts. i'm doubting this myself now...

  8. #8
    Ultra King Frum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    19,193
    Quote Originally Posted by Parky Again View Post

    isn't the body something very high in the percent stakes made of water? 90%?
    Click the clicky in my 13:31 post. This thread is getting delightfully silly.

  9. #9
    Ultra King Parky Again's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    14,005


    argh!!! so if sweat 750 ml i will die!!!!

    i was so looking forward to an afternoon in the hot/steam rooms this weekend too. i won't be able to find my way out again.

  10. #10
    Mini Goon Fleegle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    240
    Quote Originally Posted by :D Frum View Post
    Click the clicky in my 13:31 post. This thread is getting delightfully silly.

    With good humour I note....

    Lets add to that,Murphys Law, we're all unique and individual, so what has no affect on one could have major consequenses on someone else!

    My Gran used to say to me, "a little of what you fancy in moderation, does you no harm". Its just atwhat point is moderation....

    BTW, I keep telling Mrs Fleegle that, and pointing out a rather nice young attractive female across the road. I dare not tell you where I have the bruises!

  11. #11
    Super Moderator Jon Doran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,414


    Thanks guys, I've edited the article to make it clear that caffeine isn't significantly diuretic, but regardless of whether people used to drink beer as a primary hydration source, it's still diuretic and an intoxicant too so arguably not a good idea as a beverage on the hill.

  12. #12
    Super Moderator Jon Doran's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,414


    I do not think anyone recommends alcohol for altitude adaption. I suspect it still gets drunk.

    Yeah, but trust me, you really don't want a high altitude hangover.

  13. #13
    Initiate Mr Fuller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    667


    Yeah, altitude hangovers are horrific, but wine and alcohol thin the blood, which (apparently) aids acclimitisation in the same way that garlic does. I use the above logic to justify a bottle of wine a night in the Alps!

    On a wild camp trip I once watched a guy fill his Platypus with tinnies that he'd been carrying around for 36 hours. He needed practice getting the head/liquid ratio a bit better.

  14. #14
    Ultra King
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    8,732


    No-one yet has mentioned food. You get fluid from food too, in varying amounts.Take dehydrated foods a lot of people use in the hills, what do you add to them to make a meal? Water!!

    If you want to see what dehydration feels like, go a day with out drinking ANY fluid and see how sh1t you feel,( don't try a day where you will be exercising lots, or it's hot ).

    I've known people to collapse from dehydration, even heard of people die!!

    You body needs fluid to regulate it's temperture. If you stop sweating on a hot day, or while exercising you are in serious trouble, at risk of collapse and unless rehydrated very soon,( small sips of fluid ONLY, not big gulps ), could die.

  15. #15
    Widdler
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    2
    Hydration is very important and does reduce physical performance and especially in the mountains you need to keep hydrated to maintain performance. Dehydration is very dangerous. However there are some small mistakes in this article. Studying urine is only relevant on the first pee in the morning but it does give a very good indication of hydration level.

    With regards to dehydration it is very easy to become dehydrated without knowing it, this can happen by the increased breathing rate you experience while exercising causing 1 L + to be lost and that does not include sweat rates which can reach 2 /3 L in 1 hour. So you can lose 3 to 4 kg during a days walk without hydrating.

    The topic of beer and caffeine are very interesting, beer actually is absorbed faster than water but it does have a diuretic affecting, which affects the brain more than most diuretics (hence a hangover). However this is not a problem if you drink beer and water. Alcohol does prevent the body from recovering as efficiently as it can from exercise. Caffeine is not a problem you just need to drink a bit more, caffeine has been shown to increase the rate of glucose uptake (can get energy to the muscle faster) hence why you have started to see it in sports drinks.

    As for hyponatremia (to much water) this is very rare and you would need about 12- 14 L to much. However it is dangerous and presents with the same symptoms as dehydration so can be treated incorrectly which leads to death.

    If you exercise on a hot day i know i have consumed 8-9 L a day and been dehydrates but this was in a hot environment and exercising 2 a day.

    The most important thing to take from this is if you drink when you are thirsty it is to late! why i can ramble when i get on nutrition and ex phys, sorry!

  16. #16
    Ultra King Parky Again's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    14,005


    "sweat rates which can reach 2 /3 L in 1 hour" wouldn't you know you were sweating this much?

    isn't this hydration nonsense rally aimed at "athletes" upon whom all these tests have been made rather than ordinary joe out for a walk. if you're an "athlete" - or have pretensions thereto you should know all this alchemical mumbo jumbo anyway as you fret about your sports drink dilution and what size bladder you really need.

    caffeine. that would be the drink they give you after giving a pint of blood...?

    drinking water makes you pee just as much as caffeine or beer. it's just a case of getting the balance right.

    and of course all this hydration stuff does ignore the single most important source of your daily water intake, as huskyman has said, namely food. we need say 2 litres of water a day. the vast majority of which is obtained from food.

    to stay hydrated on the hill would tend to imply to me that you should worry more about your food intake rather than your water intake.

    is all that dried fruit really good for you as a snack...?


  17. #17
    ‹bermensch Nigel Healy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    1,994
    Quote Originally Posted by Parky Again View Post

    "sweat rates which can reach 2 /3 L in 1 hour" wouldn't you know you were sweating this much?

    isn't this hydration nonsense rally aimed at "athletes" upon whom all these tests have been made rather than ordinary joe out for a walk.
    Parky, your detection of sweating is contextual really on ambient humidity, wind, clothing, etc. As a regular cyclist I'm usually at such a speed I'm evaporating all that is sweating, I'm bone dry on skin, and I can infer my sweat from how much water I drink. I've been cycling for decades and no longer can consciously think about drinking water, it just happens, and at about 50F I drink very little, say 0.5L per 3 hours, at 60F I drink say 1L per 3 hours, but at 70F it really kicks in to about 1L per 2 hours and at 80F 1L per hour.

    This restricts where I can get to in the water I carry, generally able to go further in cooler weather.

    Above 80F, I can't really cycle.

    Proactive drinking, doesn't seem needed in my case, I've tried it and it simply makes me pee more, so I guess the sensors are working well?

    As to impact, well I recall reading the small reduction in water disproportionately reduces blood volume and so blood flow reduces, that reduces performance, via reducing of the good stuff coming in (oxygen, sugars, etc) and bad stuff coming away (Co2, waste toxins, etc). In certain cases, the reduced blood volume can lead to heart attack, stroke, etc.

  18. #18
    Goon
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    392
    I'm getting thirsty just reading this

  19. #19
    Mini Goon Fleegle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    240
    Coopsy, put your tongue away......

Similar Threads

  1. Talkback: Flood Warning Walking Basics!
    By Douglas Briton 3 in forum Article talkback
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-01-2014, 05:32 PM
  2. Talkback: Convert Your Bottle Into A Hydration System
    By Slioch in forum Article talkback
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 12-09-2012, 02:52 PM
  3. Talkback: Monday Tip - Cold Weather Hydration
    By Lostsheep in forum Article talkback
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 05-03-2011, 10:59 PM
  4. Talkback: Monday Tip - Tent Care Basics
    By NickNick in forum Article talkback
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 03-03-2011, 02:06 PM
  5. Talkback: Tuesday Kit Tip - Pitching Basics
    By Peter Clinch in forum Article talkback
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 20-08-2010, 10:21 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •