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Thread: Talkback: New Outdoors Show Looking Good?

  1. #1
    Widdler
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    Devastated about the Alpkit tent news, what good is a tent with only 1200mm HH on the groundsheet? Within a season it's going to have worn to nothing! Also, I cant see how it's got 6 poles - surely its 4?

    Hopefully these are typos, but it's not very professional to go to a major show and have a bunch of duff info on display. Are Alpkit getting too big to concentrate on the little things or what?

    Hopefully they are pre-occupied designing a bombproof family tent for 150.00 - fingers crossed!

  2. #2
    Mini Goon
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    Joebob,

    The measure of hydrostatic head is at what height the water will come through the material (if stacked above it in a tall column) - whilst what you bring up is more about the durability of the material; don't confuse the two things (they are normally related), but if you make the material more durable...

    Hopefully there will be further comment here from the Alpkit team on the subject. When I spoke with them I was impressed with both their attention to detail & their willingness to listen to views of others. These are also prototypes that are being tested - not finished production

    regards

    charles

  3. #3
    Super Moderator Jon Doran's Avatar
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    The technical information is straight off the tent's info sign board from the show, you can see it yourself if you look at the images at the bottom of the story and click on the red sign thumbnail.

    If you want to check the details, I'd simply pop over to the Alpkit web site and ask them - or use their Facebook or Twitter pages - they're a really approachable, friendly and receptive bunch of guys, that's what CoLab is all about, and I'm sure they'd be happy to listen.

    I suspect that the HH measurement should be 12,000 rather than 1,200mm - an Alpkit Hunka has a HH of 10,0000...

  4. #4
    Widdler
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    Hi Charles,

    I know what HH is thanks, and 1200mm won't keep the water out; unless of course you don't intend to put anything in the tent? The 70d 120t nylon floor should be plenty durable (there's lots of manufacturers using thinner fabrics), but what's the point if it dosnae keep ye dry!

    I think Jon's right and someone made a massive balls up of the display board. Thing is that isn't really like Alpkit, as many people can attest to.

    The saving grace for Alpkit is that hardly anyone at the OS would have had the foggiest what HH means, so any negative publicity would have been limited.

    Until it was replicated on OM. Oh well, c'est la vie!

    Good report of the show by the way, i was going to go this year but totally forgot.

  5. #5
    Mini Goon Alpnick's Avatar
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    Hi Joe Bob

    No need to get devastated just yet. The samples were 1200mm HH so the display boards were correct but of course no one in the right mind would chose this level of waterproofness for a ground sheet on a 4 season Mountain tent. The reason it happened was just down to time, we put in an enormous amount of effort to do a show like this. Thats a lot of late nights, power tools and coffee. Ken who did the graphics took it straight form a specification from the factory, so although it was sort of typo is was also correct. The production tents will have something between 10k and 12k HH

    Charles is quite right to point out the difference between durability and HH. The fabric we are using is durable enough it's just lacking a thick enough coating to make it waterproof to 10,000mm. Thicker coatings do add a certain stiffness and body to a fabric which has an effect on durability, but are not the primary factors like yarn type or construction.

    I think if you had visted the stand you would of seen the amount of effort we put in and seen why it would be easy to make the odd mistake. We were on hand at the show so almost everyone that showed an interest in the tents would of had one of us chatting about them.

    So far we are very happy with how they have turned out.

    Any questions give us a shout.

    Cheers

    Nick

  6. #6
    Super Moderator Jon Doran's Avatar
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    Thanks Nick, appreciated, I'll update the original article to minimise confusion. More generally, I should be popping down to see the Akpkit guys some time in the next week or so and we should have some more detailed info on the tents as a result.

  7. #7
    Widdler
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    Excellent news, glad the show went well for you guys and the tents are going to be as rugged and hard wearing as we've come to expect from Alpkit.

    Now I can't wait for the update!

  8. #8
    Mini Goon Alpnick's Avatar
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    ( i did post up yesterday but it didnt seem work)
    Hi Joe Bob

    No need to get devastated just yet. The samples were 1200mm HH so the display boards were correct but of course no one in the right mind would chose this level of waterproofness for a ground sheet on a 4 season Mountain tent. The reason it happened was just down to time, we put in an enormous amount of effort to do a show like this. Thats a lot of late nights, power tools and coffee. Ken who did the graphics took it straight form a specification from the factory, so although it was sort of typo is was also correct.

    Charles is quite right to point out the difference between durability and HH. The fabric we are using is durable enough it's just lacking a thick enough coating to make it waterproof to 10,000mm. Thicker coatings do add a certain stiffness and body to a fabric which has an effect on durability, but are not the primary factors like yarn type or construction.

    I think if had visted the stand you would of seen the amount of effort we put in and seen why it would be easy to make the odd mistake. We were on hand at the show so almost everyone that showed an interest in the tents would of had one of us chatting about them.

    So far we are very happy with how they have turned out.

    Any questions give us a shout.

    Cheers

    Nick

  9. #9
    Ultra King Frum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpnick View Post
    ( i did post up yesterday but it didnt seem work)
    Hi Joe Bob

    Alpkit - damn good gear and prices, c*ap posting on OM.

  10. #10
    Ultra King
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    Well Nick one thing I would like to ask you since you have now moved into tents. Is it possible to make a lightweight, solotent for taller people to use? In the race to get down to 560g there has been a tendancy to make the useable inside space of a tent practically less than 2000mm. I am as near as damnit 2m tall. I know from experience the stated internal length of a tent for me needs to be at least 225cm for me to reliably fit in with head and foot room. The head and foot room is basically to allow for the curve of the inner of the tent. You always lose a bit to allow your feet and head to stick up off the groundsheet and not touch the inner.

    Anyway I reckon if Alpkit could make a sub 1kg solo tent with a greater internal space than say 225 or 230cm I think there would be a market. Until them I am using tarps.

    On the HH front isn't the minimum standard for a jacket to be called waterproof by the EN standard either 1000mm or 1500mm? MY first thought was not enough coating for a groundsheet quickly followed by a typo with a missing zero. Then I was impressed, a 12000mm HH groundsheet is rather impressive. I have a force 10 vitesse with 10000mm HH groundsheet and 5000mmHH fly. Both reasonably good spec. Even the Macpac tents such as Minaret only had 8000mm HH and they were considered to have a really good groundsheet back in the day. They had a very good rep for durability and long life for the groundsheet coating. Also the fly coating. Its one thing to have a high HH at the start of a tent's life but all performance will fade with use. My old JW Pocket Hotel was excellent for about 15 years then the groundsheet lost all resistance to water. That one had a high HH for its day and cost bracket.

    Anyway I do intend to keep lookingout for Alpkit tents as I reckon one day they will have one suitable for me and my use. (700 to 800g double skin tent with 240cm internal length and 110cm internal height please). Reality I will accept 900 to 1000g, 225 to 230cm internal length and whatever height you want to design to. We can dream can't we?

  11. #11
    Mini Goon Alpnick's Avatar
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    (3rd time trying to post)
    Hi Joe Bob

    No need to get devastated just yet. The samples were 1200mm HH so the display boards were correct but of course no one in the right mind would chose this level of waterproofness for a ground sheet on a 4 season Mountain tent. The reason it happened was just down to time, we put in an enormous amount of effort to do a show like this. Thats a lot of late nights, power tools and coffee. Ken who did the graphics took it straight form a specification from the factory, so although it was sort of typo is was also correct.

    Charles is quite right to point out the difference between durability and HH. The fabric we are using is durable enough it's just lacking a thick enough coating to make it waterproof to 10,000mm. Thicker coatings do add a certain stiffness and body to a fabric which has an effect on durability, but are not the primary factors like yarn type or construction.

    I think if had visted the stand you would of seen the amount of effort we put in and seen why it would be easy to make the odd mistake. We were on hand at the show so almost everyone that showed an interest in the tents would of had one of us chatting about them.

    So far we are very happy with how they have turned out.

    Any questions give us a shout.

    Cheers

    Nick

  12. #12
    Ultra King Martin Carpenter's Avatar
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    ? All your posts are showing OK for me - just a tiny bit further up the thread.

  13. #13
    Mini Goon Alpnick's Avatar
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    Hi All

    Got it sorted now, I was being a muppet.

    The reason a groundsheet need to be so waterproof is just down to pressure, if you can imagine kneeling down on to fabric with damp ground you are essentially pushing water through the fabric at a higher pressure than it cope with. 10k mm gives you a safety margin.

    Lwt tent -Petes been working on a 2man tent with dimensions of 220cm x 130cm with a target weight of 900g. The emphasis has been on getting usable space rather than headline grabbing weight loss.

    Cheers

    Nick

  14. #14
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