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Thread: Layering recommendations for tropical rainforest up to temperate forest

  1. #21
    Super Moderator captain paranoia's Avatar
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    > tell me what you guys think ok?

    base layer-long sleeve lightweight base layer (my own)

    no contest...

    mid layer-either paramo explorer pull-on or snugpak vapour active lightweight wind jacket

    I'd go for a 'pure' mid-layer, so that excludes anything with built-in wind protection, as it's not as versatile (and I think we all agree you need versatility for your climate range)

    > outer layer- cabela dry-plus waterproof ultra parka

    No experience of Cabelas, as they have no presence in the UK market. But looks okay, and cheap. But I might be tempted to look for something with better venting options; large, mesh-lined pockets, or pit-zips, given the expected humidity.

    synthetic layer- cabela ultra-pack synthetic down parka or snugpak sleeka lite

    Hmmm... camouflage options...? Not for me, thanks, as I don't want to look like a combattant (a serious point in some countries)... Again, no experience of Cabelas stuff.

    Personally, I wouldn't add a synthetic layer for active use at those temperatures, so I'd suggest you'd only need one synthetic item, for evening use, or stops. You might run cold, and so need more warmth.

    And I can't stress enough how much I would recommend you get a pure windproof layer, which seems to be missing from your list. No insulation, no waterproof membrane or coating; just a lightweight windproof shell. Concept also discussed at length in this thread.

  2. #22
    Übermensch Nigel Healy's Avatar
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    "I'd go for a 'pure' mid-layer, so that excludes anything with built-in wind protection, as it's not as versatile (and I think we all agree you need versatility for your climate range)"

    Is a mid-layer with a denser weave so its got a little more wind-resistance so you're delaying adding a windproof, not more flexible? I just hold literally a Berghaus 100wt fleece to mouth and blow vs holding say a Paramo Trekker Hoodie to my mouth and blow, the latter is about twice the effort to blow through so takes about the twice the wind speed before its insulation benefit is robbed? Is there any downside to a tighter weave mid-layer?

    Agree, don't combine fleece+windproof if you're trying to avoid a wardrobe of garments for each type of situation.

    I'm only advocating doing a low-tech wind test in the store when selecting which of the low-cost mid-layers you'll buy.

  3. #23
    Ultra King Parky Again's Avatar
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    i think something like the paramo is in tweak territory. i believe that anyone should first use the basic layers which will give them a fairly good idea of what suits and what doesn't.

    i also think any non cotteon cheap,£5 , base layer is fine and any cheap, £5-£10, fleece is just fine too. a fleece is a fleece. a £20+ one will have no distinct advantage over a cheap one (my m&s £7.50 fleeces are absolutely ace for example)

    as for waterproofs in this example. what do the locals use when it rains. how does it rain. when does it rain. £70 odd on a waterproof which may the worse thing for the job is a lot of dosh.

  4. #24
    Mini Goon
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    Abdul, whereabouts in Asia are you going to be? When you say humid and mountains -5 to30ºcit gets me thinking of Malaysia, Indonesia but I could be way out as its a pretty big area.

  5. #25
    Super Moderator captain paranoia's Avatar
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    > Is there any downside to a tighter weave mid-layer?

    The eternal windproofing vs breathability compromise. Also, a tighter weave, by definition, must have less trapped air per unit mass, so will be less efficient as static insulation (in no wind situations). Of course, a tighter weave mid layer will be more breathable than a windproof layer, so it's a compromise, as always; there's no one 'best system.

    > I'm only advocating doing a low-tech wind test in the store when selecting which of the low-cost mid-layers you'll buy.

    That's the very test I've used for years. You get some strange looks, though, with people thinking you're 'kissing' the clothes...

  6. #26
    Ultra King Parky Again's Avatar
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    kissing the clothes. erm..erm...cough....

  7. #27
    Widdler
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    john, that range of temp i think in Malaysia maybe only in Kinabalu on one of its cold nites? If in Indonesia the temp can go to 0deg C on one of its worst nites at Mount Rinjani in Lombok island, which im going next yr...im just starting back this hiking hobby after a long layoff..

  8. #28
    Widdler
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    so for now this is what i have decided to get

    base layer- checked
    mid layer- still looking
    windproof- scouring the net for the cheapest Fuera Peak size S
    waterproof- will make do with my cheap poncho, not decided what to get
    synthetic( for camp duty ) - snugpak sleeka lite or sherpa vajra or maybe others, still looking

    seems alrite you reckon?

  9. #29
    Ultra King
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    For the 'tropical rain forest' part of your post, IME, pair of poly-pro boxers, light windproof long sleeve shirt, wind proof trousers or 'zip offs'. Your Poncho will do for waterproof, as even using 3 layer Goretex, etc. just "wet out" in these conditions and you'll be 'soaked' from 'inside' no matter what you use. Change into dry clothes in camp and put 'wet' clothes back on in morning. Will be slightly uncomfortable till you warm up a bit, but no sense in getting loads of clothes wet that you can't dry. H

  10. #30
    Mini Goon otaku_steve's Avatar
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    I used to live in Singapore for about 7 years, although there's no hillwalking there, and I now live in Japan where in winter it can snow about a metre overnight, but summers feel hotter and more humid than Singapore.

    I am sure you know this already,but for other peoplewho may be looking at this thread for advice on hillwalkingat lower latitudes my recommendations are:

    1) Bring an extra baselayer topor 2to change into at lunch breaks etc. as the one you are wearing, no matter what its made of,will be absolutelysaturated. (And dont forget to rehydate yourself)

    2) Protection from mosquitos as they can bite through quite a thick layer of fabric e.g. socks, t-shirts if the fabric is clinging to the skin, which is typically the case when you are sweating, and in the forest the little buggers are active all day. You should think about getting one of those long sleeve mosquito repellent shirts, perhaps DEET impregnated. There are also untreated tightly woven nylon shirts which are supposed to be mosquito proof, but the thought of wearing one in tropical conditions does not appealto me.

  11. #31
    Widdler
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    hey steve, i think you shld know also theres no point in buying jackets and windshirt for so-called hill walking over here...im looking to invest more for overseas hiking trips around the region and maybe if im holidaying with my family to a winter country.


  12. #32
    Mini Goon otaku_steve's Avatar
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    Hi abdul,

    I guess it depends on how high you are going - tackling Pungcak Jaya looks like it would call for some kit! One day, perhaps (wishful thinking...).

    Wandering slightly off topic...

    East Asia (China Japan etc) has some very nice walking (as opposed to full on mountaineering), in particular Japan is probably worth a visit for the less technically minded. Of course, I may be biased about that. Snow can be a problem in many areas during the winter season - difficult to walk when your in it up to your armpits!Depending on where you are in Japan there are nomosquitos in winter though - heaven! There isa big variation of climate in Japan - the last few days have been approaching 20C here in Tokyo, yet a couple of hours travelling will get me to a ski resort. I have heard that you can ski until May in the north of the country, and grow bananas in the south.

    Do you have the same problem finding and buying kit locally as I did in Singapore? Japan has plenty of retailers but the prices seem a bit on the high side compared to the US, however Singapore prices are even higher (and not that many shops). Where are you based?

  13. #33
    Widdler
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    steve, im s'pore born and bred...indonesia have some nice mountains...the wish is to go further too, Nepal is in the mind, Kili too hopefully..

    over here..outdoor shops is still not much, hence the quite high price for clothing kits...slapped a goretex tag on it and it will shoot even higher..

  14. #34
    Ultra King
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    The windproof l/s tops and trousers will also double up as base/mid layers, depending on how cold it is. I think you already had thought of them on you kit list.

    As for rehydration,as you live in a warm country I'd presume you know how important it is to keep hydrated. When exercising/walking etc. you need to be drinking at least 6lts or more of water per day!! As a good guide if you are drinking enough go by the 'pee test', the paler your pee the better. Dark coloured pee means you aren't getting enough water in your body. This means you lose performance, just being 2% dehydrated causes a loss of around 10% performance.

    Waiting till you feel thirsty is no good, as by then you can be up to 20% dehydrated, it takes a while for your body to realise it is dehydrated. Plain water is probably best as some energy drinks contain quite a lot of sodium, (salts), and can make you need to drink more to dilute them unless really 'working hard'. Salt/s can also make you feel thirstier, and sometimes nauseaus/vomit, so I'd avoid if possible. You normally get enough from your food, but if you need more, it's better to add to your food.

  15. #35
    Widdler
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    huskyman, yup i agree on the hydration for the weather we have over here..dats why its hard to decide what to get for clothing kit...come to think of it, a good windproof kit is more impt than a waterproof as the rain, although can be torrential rain if luck is not on your side, is usually not prolong, unless of coz u are travelling during the monsoon season where it can rain almost everyday..

  16. #36
    Mini Goon otaku_steve's Avatar
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    Yes, dealing with the rain is a somewhat different proposition to the UK. The humidity make waterproof jackets (and presumably trousers) a bit of a trial. Umbrellas are the best option if available and the wind is not too strong. In fact, I often just use a (very) wide brimmed water resistant hat and let the rest of me get wet. Up high this is probably not such a good idea though. Talking of hats, something likeone of thetilley LTM seriesmay be nice to have to keep the sun off and light rain off.

  17. #37
    Widdler
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    ok, another thing is how bad is the short sleeves problem of the fuera? im a 36in chest size, height 1.73m, from the paramo size i shld be a S size(38inch)..though i can fit in an XS i think since their cutting is usually more generous than other slim fit windjackets, but again the short sleeves problem will be more..

  18. #38
    Ultra King Parky Again's Avatar
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    the fuera doesn't have short sleeves. the sleeves come down to nearly my knuckles. same height as you but medium. short sleeves on a windshirt is never a problem. mine are rolled up most of the time except when it's raining.

  19. #39
    Widdler
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    thanks parky, now i can go head and get the peak...

    on the midlayer side, still not sure to get the trekker hoodie or the explorer pull on or a normal fleece w/o a hood...

  20. #40
    Mini Goon Formosa man's Avatar
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    Sounds like similar conditions as you'd experience in Taiwan. I've only ever done either low-level humid walks or high-level temperate walks there, never in combination. I agree with what you're saying about rain, Abdul. If it rains it's torrential (or more, typhoon level) and no waterproof would keep you dry (you'd probably be worried about landslides and such as well). I think you wouldn't be walking much during the rainy season. Windproof is the way to go.

    By the way, Taiwan has some amazing alpine-like climbing and hiking (highest mountains in east asia!). You should all go!

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