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  1. #81
    Übermensch Chris OutdoorsGrubcouk's Avatar
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    fb: I was a pole sceptic, and got some to make river crossings safer. I thenexperimented using themwhen walking (seeing as I was carrying them anyway) and found they helped. I now use poles most times on multi-day walks, except on flat/hard paths -- partly down to the annoying "clack". I can make better time for the same energy expended using poles than not. On dodgy ground I also find the extra support very reassuring.

  2. #82
    Ultra King Fossil Bluff's Avatar
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    Good call Chris



    And yes that hex pole is somewhat errrr 'chunky'. I shall use it.

  3. #83
    Ultra King Fossil Bluff's Avatar
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    Thanks Zubald

    I do actually have some poles I will get around to using them one day.

    But you know I have an electric toothbrush too (my dentist says it is better for me) - I havent taken it out of the packet in 7 months Perhaps I will get around to that too.

  4. #84
    Übermensch Chris OutdoorsGrubcouk's Avatar
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    Oh, and the only thing that winds me up about superfeet and the like is that some folk (not including CT, who has more sense , but including one of his fellow TGO writers I'm afraid...) imply that we should all be using them and that footwear as purchased is somehow incomplete or useless without them. If they work for you and solve a genuine problem, great, but don't try and force them on the rest of us!

  5. #85
    Ultra King Trevor D Gamble's Avatar
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    But you know I have an electric toothbrush too (my dentist says it is better for me) - I havent taken it out of the packet in 7 months Perhaps I will get around to that too. -Wrote FB.

    Where the hell are you gonna plug that in on the hill then FB?

  6. #86
    Ultra King Fossil Bluff's Avatar
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    It is rechareable Trev.

  7. #87
    Ultra King Trevor D Gamble's Avatar
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    Damn!!! Another jest bites the dust there then!

  8. #88
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    Chris, there is no robust scientific evidence that Superfeet alleviate symptoms of anything. That is why the Advertising Standards Authority told the UK distributors of Superfeetto withdraw from your magazine two adverts making such claims, which they did without argument.

    Your opinion that most people over 40 over-pronate comes from a private, unpublished source, with a vested interest in Superfeet, and is not available at the www.fitsystembyphiloren.com link you gave previously orapparently anywhere in the public domain.

    Most people do not over-pronate, although unless they have rigor-mortis their feet will lengthen when stood on. Most people do not need arch supports, just as they do not need ankle supports, or stiff soled boots, orwalking sticks for that matter.

    Zubald: Here is a review of 52 studies of Nordic Walking using poles. There is some evidence that it reduces joint stress, though it does increase thumb injuries! It also makes walking less efficient, since it increases energy consumption compared to regular walking without poles at the same speed. But the argument that it reduces knee-strain is not clear cut; here is a study that failed to find any reduction in load to the knees.

  9. #89
    Übermensch Chris Townsend's Avatar
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    ALS, over-pronation was a recognised problem before Superfeet appeared and is well referenced in running and foot care literature. Here are a few links selected at random

    One, two

    Three

    Four

    Superfeet alleviate my over-pronation. There can be no better evidence for me.

    By the way, TGO is not my magazine. I'm a freelance who writes for it. I have nothing to do with advertising in the magazine or know anything about it. I have knowledge of the ASA and Superfeet other than what you have written in this thread.

    I have had a look at the Superfeet website for the first time in years and as far as I can remember the claims are the same as ever. I found this on the site:

    "Eighty percent of the population pronates more than they need to in order to function properly. By using the proper type of footbed, you can increase stability to the excessive pronation within the foot.

    The goal of the Superfeet footbeds or a corrective orthotic would be to try to slow the pronation motions down so that these types of forces don't aggravate or injure the muscles, tendons, ligaments and bones in the lower extremity. "

    How do you know most people don't over-pronate?





  10. #90
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    Of course Superfeet would like to argue that eighty-percent of the population have dysfunctional feet and need their expensive footbeds! Things go better with Coke! Daz washes whiter!Alas, it is a claim with no evidential basis, which is why they had to withdraw their adverts from TGO. Your personal endorsement is not sufficient to comply with the ASA rules.You can ask TGOs advertising department aboutthe complaints to theASA- hereare the dates. I've probably still got the correspondence with the ASA if you are interested, though Ithink youshould publish it so that your readers can make their own judgements.

    I have not argued that over-pronation might not be a problem for some people, I dispute the claim that 80% of people suffer from it. None of the four links you give make that claim either, so I haven't got a clue why you quoted them.

    Let's suppose that pronation isnormal. And that there is an average amount of it. Just about half of the people will pronate more than average, and the other half less. So how can 80% of people over-pronate? What do you mean by over-pronating? If most people do it, isn't it, well, normal?

    I have noticed that when climbing, my hand stretches quite a lot when I am hanging from holds. Does this mean I need Superpalms? Or is it just how my hand is supposed to work? The stretching could be a sign of flexibility, in which case Iwould be glad, or it could be a sign of weakness, in which case I would want to strengthen my hand. But attempt torestrict it mechanically when it isn't broken? No!

  11. #91
    Ultra King Trevor D Gamble's Avatar
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    'I have noticed that when climbing, my hand stretches quite a lot when I am hanging from holds. Does this mean I need Superpalms?' Wrote ALS.

    Damn'it all! That's the second one of my money makin' invention ideas you've shot down in flames today already! Please stoppit! Darn it, I thought I had been really clever thinking of that 'back support aid' till you mentioned it too, earlier on!

  12. #92
    Ultra King Trevor D Gamble's Avatar
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    'I've probably still got the correspondence with the ASA if you are interested, though Ithink youshould publish it so that your readers can make their own judgements.' - Wrote ALS.

    Well, actually we do anyway. We make judgements everyday on things usually. We decide whether we want to reada thing, to buy a thing or...... not!

  13. #93
    Ultra King Fossil Bluff's Avatar
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    ALoveSupreme

    Thanks for the walking pole study links. Very interesting, when they first arrived in this country (in present format) I seem to remember claims up up to 30 / 40 % better walking efficiency! Clearly those sort offigures are bunkum. However it was nonsense enough to put me off so I never really got into using these things, although I did try onceand found them clumsy (for me).

    Are walking poles really the emperer's new clothes???

    .

    Sorry no offence meant to those who find them a comfort / support etc. There are those who take to poles and swear that they do relieve the joints , one young man I know switched to using poles somewhere between the GR5 and the GR20 because his knees were giving him jip, he uses poles all of the time now - is it just in his imagination, or is there a real truth behind this sort of anecdotal evidence?

  14. #94
    Ultra King Trevor D Gamble's Avatar
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    Are you implying some kind of a 'placebo' effect might be in operation there somehow then perhaps FB? At least in some folks gaining definite help from using the poles, as a kind of mind over mater type 'propping' oneself up maybe.

  15. #95
    Ultra King Trevor D Gamble's Avatar
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    People have been using walking poles/staffs/sticks for absolutely thousands of years though haven't they. So not really new clothes for the Emperor as such perhaps there.

  16. #96
    Ultra King Fossil Bluff's Avatar
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    No not at all Trev

    I am sure that some folk do relieve joints by walking with poles. However, as ALS points out there is no evidence despite the research being done to prove they do. (going on what ALS has told us)

    Just saying 'they help me' is anecdotal and could, as you say,have a 'placebo' aspect to it.

    Now if that is the case, and I am not saying that it is, then perhaps the king is in the 'alltogether' and nobody can see it!

  17. #97
    Ultra King Trevor D Gamble's Avatar
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    That's beginning to look quite likely then perhaps. Indeed!

  18. #98
    Ultra King Trevor D Gamble's Avatar
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    I do think for sure they help one with one's 'balance' outdoorsas it were. And especially so over uneven ground, and doubly so when hauling a big load of kit on our backs! Or are we just trying now to compensate from all our crappy feet; born from too much wearing nice supportive shoes and walking as was said, mostly on the flat man made surfaces of modern civilisation.

  19. #99
    Ultra King Fossil Bluff's Avatar
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    Wel it would be interesting if somebody else can find a study to the opposite Trev.

    I would like to prove that they DO do something, even though I dont use them.

  20. #100
    Ultra King Trevor D Gamble's Avatar
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    Nordic walking is something most odd to my mind though! Seeing people around here using their nordic poles -with the funny 'golf club putter' looking plastic ends - whilstwalking along mostly upon pavement and roads! Most odd that, I think!

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