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Thread: "good nights sleep" on bag rating?

  1. #1
    Widdler
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    "good nights sleep" on bag rating?

    Just been looking at sleeping bags, and noticed manufacturers (ME in particular) quoting a 'good nights sleep' temperature.

    This seems to be between the comfort limit, and the extreme ratings. Do you think these are actually reliable figures?

    I know everyone sleeps different, but I find I am normally sleeping true to bag temps. I would figure a 'good nights sleep' rating means you're still fully clothed?

    Cheers!
    Paul

  2. #2
    Goon
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    I was a bit confused by that claim on my ME bag as well. I suspect that they regard the EN rating as conservative, their experience would suggest a slightly lower actual comfort temp, and of course the ENrating is based on someone sleeping on a very simple close cell mat, as opposed to the self inflating ones most of us use.

    It would be interesting to see what their actual reply to this question is.

  3. #3
    Widdler
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike B 46 View Post
    I was a bit confused by that claim on my ME bag as well. I suspect that they regard the EN rating as conservative, their experience would suggest a slightly lower actual comfort temp, and of course the ENrating is based on someone sleeping on a very simple close cell mat, as opposed to the self inflating ones most of us use.

    It would be interesting to see what their actual reply to this question is.
    I read somewhere that it is their temperature based on 'years of sleeping outside'. Kinda like PhDs temperature guesses based on the fill power and weight, not any real scientific tests.

  4. #4
    Goon
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    But Alpkit and a number of other (generally smaller) brands do argue that the EN test is a touch artificial, and that if your building bags like PHD does http://www.phdesigns.co.uk/temperatu...-down-clothing, then experience and the feedback from customers do give you a good idea as to how your bags will perform. If your sleeping bag isn't warm enough at minus 33 C, your going to let them know!

    I get the impression that down bags from PHD, RAB, ME and US brands like Feathered Friends/Western Mountaineering are slightly conservative anyway - their reputation rests on their bags performing, so even if their guessing, they are guessing well.

  5. #5
    Initiate Mr Fuller's Avatar
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    Mountain Equipment's Good Night Sleep temperature is based on a lot of different testing, not just the EN 13537 test. We think it is a better benchmark than the EN test for most people. I've recently an article about this on UKC: https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=9238 which should hopefully help highlight why the EN test alone isn't the best way to assess a bag.

    Good Night's Sleep temperatures are based on 'years of sleeping outside' but also on cold chamber testing, thermal camera work, PhD research, the EN test, tog testing, specific field trials... we put a lot of effort into making sure our Good Night's Sleep temperature ratings are as reliable as they can be.

  6. #6
    Goon
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    Mountain Equipment's Good Night Sleep temperature is based on a lot of different testing, not just the EN 13537 test. We think it is a better benchmark than the EN test for most people. I've recently an article about this on UKC: https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=9238 which should hopefully help highlight why the EN test alone isn't the best way to assess a bag.

    Good Night's Sleep temperatures are based on 'years of sleeping outside' but also on cold chamber testing, thermal camera work, PhD research, the EN test, tog testing, specific field trials... we put a lot of effort into making sure our Good Night's Sleep temperature ratings are as reliable as they can be.
    Thanks for that - it does clarify things a little, makes me more confident about my Classic 500 and that article was so useful I posted a link to that very article yesterday on another thread!

    BTW - I'm still waiting for a feedback from ME to an email I sent in January about rainspotting on the Drilite shell of my Lightline jacket http://forums.outdoorsmagic.com/show...xtHRYBHeC3z.97 - shall I try again?

  7. #7
    Initiate Mr Fuller's Avatar
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    Apologies for that Mike B. Yes, please send another email and I'm sure we'll pick it up. Thanks.

  8. #8
    Widdler
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Fuller View Post
    Mountain Equipment's Good Night Sleep temperature is based on a lot of different testing, not just the EN 13537 test. We think it is a better benchmark than the EN test for most people. I've recently an article about this on UKC: https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=9238 which should hopefully help highlight why the EN test alone isn't the best way to assess a bag.

    Good Night's Sleep temperatures are based on 'years of sleeping outside' but also on cold chamber testing, thermal camera work, PhD research, the EN test, tog testing, specific field trials... we put a lot of effort into making sure our Good Night's Sleep temperature ratings are as reliable as they can be.
    Interesting, thank you!

    I often see the 'good night sleep' as being lower than the EN comfort limit. Would you say that the 'good night sleep' is based on being an average temperature sleeper (not hot or cold), wrapped in some clothes? Or was the science based on someone just sleeping in their underpants.

    I'm curous as I'm looking at your helium quilt, and it is only rated with a good night sleep temperature - no EN testing.

  9. #9
    Goon
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    I often see the 'good night sleep' as being lower than the EN comfort limit. Would you say that the 'good night sleep' is based on being an average temperature sleeper (not hot or cold), wrapped in some clothes? Or was the science based on someone just sleeping in their underpants.
    Since the EN rating assumes an 'average' person with a base layer on, why do you think the 'good sleep' rating (based on experience) would have that person in nothing but their pants?

  10. #10
    Initiate Toot's Avatar
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    In MY experience, based on MY physiology, the ME "good nights sleep" ratings are accurate. How it works out for anyone else, or would that rating would turn out if applied by other manufacturers to their products, may well vary by at least as much as how EN13157 ratings are agreed or disagreed with by different people. I still believe we need a uniform test or the more "creative" advertisers will all start to develop their own ratings based on what they suggest is a "good nights sleep".

  11. #11
    Widdler
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    ah I forgot that the EN test was with a baselayer!

  12. #12
    ‹bermensch Trevor DC Gamble's Avatar
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    Some much more basic yet still most useful advice here old school style, on the two main different types of sleeping bag insulation properties. Since we know a lot of the folks that come here for advice are newbies just starting out into the outdoors.
    https://gearjunkie.com/down-syntheti...t-related-link
    Last edited by Trevor DC Gamble; 27-03-2017 at 02:33 PM.
    Trevor DC Gamble

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