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Thread: Talkback: How To Care For Your Outdoor Garments

  1. #41
    ‹bermensch Trevor DC Gamble's Avatar
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    Interesting! Cheers for sharing this here.
    Trevor DC Gamble

  2. #42
    Mini Goon
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    Woubeir

    The Greenpeace reports are good, but are not something that I agree with in the conclusion stage at all, To me some wrong some presumptions have been made. Product that lasts a long time has the biggest footprint from the stage that it has been bought, but if you do not extend its usage stage, then an even bigger overall footprint happens during the manufacturing stage

    Paramo is good gear http://www.theguardian.com/sustainab...ric-technology

    but the performance of fluoro-carbon DWRs are still at a higher level. If I was doing a summit like as mentioned in the article, my choice would be for the best gear out there so as to increase my safety margin as my skills aren't as good as a professional mountaineer

    I take on board what you say about Grangers, but as others have indicated; I feel this has been done in reaction to the competition has offered. Both Nikwax & Storm has led the way with different technologies, hence why my loyalty is towards them

    Before someone highlights that Grangers is the company that has BlueSign approval; I think that exposes how poor the BlueSign methodology is. I like BlueSign, but know that they are a Swiss marketing company that specialises in environmental audits. Nikwax & Storm is better product. BlueSign have profited from working with Grangers

    Trevor

    If you heat-cure a Nikwax treatment the effect will last for longer. I know you don't have to do it for it to work, but if you want to cut down on the hassle of continually having your machine on service-wash cycles. Try it!

    rgds

  3. #43
    ‹bermensch Trevor DC Gamble's Avatar
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    Thanks Charles.
    Trevor DC Gamble

  4. #44
    Mini Goon
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    OK, what is performance for you ? Water they repel all. But I remember even a test in Trail that showed that Nikwax was clearly less durable than the PFC-products from Granger's and Storm.

  5. #45
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    I can only add as a Paramo user since 1993, that I find Grangers to be more effective than Nikwax, particularly if given a heat treatment.

    I don't know whether that is down to them still using PFC in the products I own (as I tend to stock up when I see an offer) but they definitely seem to work better.

    I also find they are better with my membrane jackets though subjectively, less of a difference, but they get proofed less often so harder to make a comparison.

    I also use detergents for a heavily soiled garment (soap otherwise) and haven't found any noticeable difference in the length of time that a DWR treatment lasts (don't keep records though) but I do live in a soft water area.

    When I got rid of an old washing machine a few years ago there was mild detergent build up around the door seals after 11 years with no 'maintenance' wash ever carried out.


  6. #46
    Ultra King Peter Clinch's Avatar
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    I also use detergents for a heavily soiled garment (soap otherwise) and haven't found any noticeable difference in the length of time that a DWR treatment lasts (don't keep records though) but I do live in a soft water area.

    At least in theory there shouldn't be any effect on the DWR's longevity.

    Any issue is that detergent traces will be working to do the very opposite of the DWR, but the DWR should still be there AIUI. Rinse well to get rid of the detergent and your DWR should be fine (again, this is regurgitating what I understand should happen rather than a deep understanding of the chemistry and/or empirical testing).

    Pete.

  7. #47
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    It's interesting that soap is harder to rinse in soft water than hard water.

    Other things that I do are always use liquid or gel detergent and soap, and always put the detergent/soap in the drum. For all my washing.

    Maybe my expectations for waterproofs are lower and I don't fret if a cuff wets out not long after reproofing.

    Basically I expect to get at the very least damp and probably wet on my mid layers when I'm out in substantial rain.

    Also, as I overheat on my head and neck, I tend to have the hood up and down a lot and there's always water that can get in the cuffs or the back of the neck etc.

    The only times I've ever stayed dry completely in a day of heavy rain has (on a rare occasion) been when I'm wearing Paramo and I suspect that's more to do with Paramo pumping the water out than stopping it getting in.

    I think the whole issue is overblown for mountain use anyway and is more of a marketing issue where users have been led to believe that a waterproof will keep you dry all day regardless.

    Whereas experienced users will realise that staying protected from the wind and keeping warm is the primary aim regardless of how wet you are. i.e. keeping a warm microclimate next to the skin.

  8. #48
    ‹bermensch Trevor DC Gamble's Avatar
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    I do know from reading on here before over the years, that soapflakes do seem to have a good deal of acceptance as being a basic good simple way of washing much outdoors kit.
    Trevor DC Gamble

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