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Thread: warmth ratings of synthetic insulation

  1. #1
    Ultra King
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    I was wondering if anyone knows the rating of different types and weights of synthetic insulations. The tog value for example. Reason? I want something warmer than my rab generator smock but don't know the difference between pl1, Eco, sport, thinsulate, haglofs insulation in the barrier ii. I've seen 133g of one type and 100g of another, more efficient pl1. Equal or not? Who knows without a tog rating. Anyone help?

  2. #2
    Ultra King Martin Carpenter's Avatar
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    Fun isn't it PHD kind of try for their stuff with temperature ratings.

    Its hard though. Fit matters a non trivial amount (getting snug closures etc), outer fabrics can change stuff etc. Having an insulated hood would of course help.

    Then there's a question of whether something like PL1 actually retains it's small warmth/weight edge after being compressed a bit.

    You could try searching backpackinglight.com for some clo values but even there there's naturally something of an American bias. (The person with the test apparatus is American ).

    If its possible you might want consider something extra to throw over the top of the generator smock. Otherwise think you're into big belay jackets.

  3. #3
    ‹bermensch Big Kev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Carpenter View Post


    If its possible you might want consider something extra to throw over the top of the generator smock. Otherwise think you're into big belay jackets.
    Indeed. Two moderately warm layers is a bit more flexible than one big super-warm one IME.

    Get something to chuck over the Generator. eg Prism 2.0

  4. #4
    Mini Goon
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    you're unlikely to find directly comparable warmth ratings from different brands.

    It depends how much warmer than your generator you want it. A hood helps keep warm air in and a 100% windproof outer fabric means that the wind won't be able to move warm air away from your body. Other than small details like that, I haven't seen many jackets which use a higher quantity of f primaloft one (except the moutnain equipment citadel). Primaloft give CLO ratings on their website and state PL1 as the best (obviously).

    I know that Mountain Equiment's polarloft and Arc'teryx's Coreloft is practically the same as Primaloft sport.

    In terms of the Eco fills (most of Haglofs' are) I don't really think they're up to the standard of others. I'm not against eco-friendliness but when i'm spending alot of money on a jacket that's going to keep me warm in the coldest conditions I kind of don't want to think that it used to be a plastic bottle.

    Anyway, found this which may help: http://www.shop-denali.com/types_of_...x#.UUzONDfDVMo

    Sorry if my writing sounds a bit jumbled.....i'm very, very tired

  5. #5
    Ultra King Martin Carpenter's Avatar
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    Because something that likely started out life as tiny sea creatures is so much more obviously tempting?

    The eco fills probably aren't quite as good as one but lets keep things semi rational

  6. #6
    ‹bermensch
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    My personal view is that there isn't really that much difference between any of the top insualtion types of the same weight. Manufacturers would like everyone to think so, of course, so they can sell more and charge premium prices. But my take is that thicker and heavier means warmer, as long as the design and fit are right.

  7. #7
    Goon Bryan Mclaughlin's Avatar
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    To compare primaloft
    http://www.primaloft.com/en/performa...aloft-one.html
    This page has variants listed with CLO per sq meter as well as the more commonly quoted sq yard

    Perhaps some other synthetics are close without a statement of independent testing - which primaloft have ...

    Consider the total usage you expect. Will it be regularly compacted? Etc

  8. #8
    Mini Goon
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    Martin, you're right, i ddin't quite mean it like that.

    What i suppose i meant is that of all the ways you can save energy etc, i don't think buying a recycled walking/mountaineering jacket is the way to go about it. If the eco products were as good as the normal ones then i'd have no problem with it but i thing like this should be bought for their quality and performance credentials rather than their eco ones.

    Not sure if that quite made sense either :S

  9. #9
    Ultra King
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    TBH I'm looking for a warm coat for general use. Cold weather pushing the baby, in a pram, down canal path, town, etc. I don't like bad purchases so I go into too much detail.
    Partner has haglofs barrier hood. I like the rab photon. I think the photon is between the generator and the haglofs (but with a hood). Just where does the rab generator alpine version fit in? Doesn't make sense to have something between std generator and the photon.

  10. #10
    ‹bermensch El Manana's Avatar
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    i think the Generator Alpine is now just a Generator (i.e.100g PL) with a hood and an endurance coating on the pertex - i may be wrong but i think the Alpine used to have more PL at one point they do keep revamping their ranges...

  11. #11
    ‹bermensch El Manana's Avatar
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  12. #12
    Mini Goon
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    IMO the generator alpine is a better version of the photon: reinforced shoulder patches, better outer material, more pockets, primaloft one instead of eco.

    If you think its worth spending the extra money for the extras features is up to you, if not, the photon sounds like a good choice for what you want.

  13. #13
    Ultra King Martin Carpenter's Avatar
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    Maybe not an awful lot warmer though with the same sort of fill weights. The hood helps of course.

    Actually, talking about their fill weights changing makes me wonder if the generator smock wasn't 60g/m2 at some points? Might be worth checking its age and trying to double check the fill weight.

    I think the alpine was always 100/60 but maybe not

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