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Thread: Talkback: Sustainability - Just Make Less Stuff!

  1. #1
    Ultra King Milly.'s Avatar
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    "The problem with Marxism is the proletariat isn't going to rise up against capitalism and consumerism. The only time they'll rise up is during a commercial break to either go to the bathroom or grab more beer."

    Human nature; no easy answer. [QUOTE=Matt C;1062259]
    Quote Originally Posted by Milly. View Post
    I see the old Macpac Pursuit is still out and about


    (though I take too many flights to stand on any moral high ground )

  2. #2
    Goon
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    Patagonia are quite good on the sustainability thing - a while ago, they produced a press release I think, asking consumers whether they actually needed to buy a new jacket. Also, Paramo claim to be eco-friendly, as their jackets last for ages and can be repaired.

    It's an interesting point and is an obvious one - but in a society obsessed with consumerism are people going to notice?

  3. #3
    Initiate
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    This is why I hang out on the "For Sale/Wanted Forum" here!

  4. #4
    Initiate Weevil's Avatar
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    I've just heard some stats-

    for a family of two adults and four children living on a total benefit allowance of £630 a week and paying £230 a week rent to a housing association:-

    after the total benefit cap next year, they will have their total allowance slashed to £500 per week.

    that might encourage them to rise up. they won't be able to afford beer or a television.

  5. #5
    Ultra King Mikel el Bastardo's Avatar
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    £500 a week in benefits?!!!!

    WTF am i working?

  6. #6
    Ultra King Parky Again's Avatar
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    "Patagonia are quite good on the sustainability thing"- i suppose producing 16 different jackets! 8 insulated jackets and seemingly endless base layers seems to not really tick any of my boxes that may be labelled sustainable other than in a smug self congratulatory way called marketing BS.

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    Ultra King Milly.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Explorer View Post
    Patagonia are quite good on the sustainability thing - a while ago, they produced a press release I think, asking consumers whether they actually needed to buy a new jacket.
    If presented with the question of 'do I actually need a new jacket?' the answer will be 'no', but then the 'new jacket' seed is planted and the thought process evolves, and hey, presto, some weeks or months later, I want a new jacket...

    Was it research, or a sneaky sales ploy?

  8. #8
    Ultra King Parky Again's Avatar
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    And as there is 16 to choose from you can have one for every scenario you may think you will need another jacket just in case...Unless it's cold where you have an additional 8 to add to your selection.

    Don't rab also have more jackets than you can throw a stick at .

    Apologies as my natural cynicism hits overdrive at these sanctimonious displays of self righteousness by right on wow man greener than though manufacturers.

  9. #9
    Ultra King Milly.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parky Again View Post
    Don't rab also have more jackets than you can throw a stick at .
    I don't know; I don't look

  10. #10
    Ultra King Parky Again's Avatar
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    Lol

  11. #11
    Initiate Weevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike fae Dundee View Post

    £500 a week in benefits?!!!!

    WTF am i working?
    are you keeping six people fed and paying rent for less than that?

  12. #12
    Super Moderator Metric Kate's Avatar
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    Given that a significant number of manufacturers provide fewer options - and thus fewer jackets - for women than for men, does that make women's outdoor clothing more environmentally friendly than men's?


  13. #13
    Ultra King
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metric Kate View Post

    Given that a significant number of manufacturers provide fewer options - and thus fewer jackets - for women than for men, does that make women's outdoor clothing more environmentally friendly than men's?




    Nope, it costs 99 times more for the weird colours and "extra frontage" design.

    Runs away quickly....................... VERY quickly.....................


  14. #14
    Mini Goon otaku_steve's Avatar
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    More foodfor environmental thought.

    But. Just. Cant. Help. Myself. Rab, Patagonia etc, Drooool....

  15. #15
    Initiate Nick P 10's Avatar
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    Well, I guess we should all buy Paramo then who only has 11 different jackets...

    Clearly all manufactures have a large range to appeal to as many people as possible. If they don't make a profit they wont make any more jackets! no profit means no money for R&D so no new jackets or improvements. Ideally all companies would only make the exact number of jackets they can sell but until we actually get the crystal ball then that is pretty hard. Surely the way forward is for the products to be produced in an environmentally friendy way, sourced sustaibably and manufactured under good conditions, no?

    Which companies do that!?

  16. #16
    Ultra King
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    Well at the risk if sounding daily mail, I once knew a single parents on benefits who had two overseas holidays a year (without kids). Never worked that one out but fair play, we all need time out.
    If you can't afford to buy new gear you can always make out you're holier than thou on the sustainability front. Afterall you do have to make things last. Gaffer tape...poor man's vortex patch!!!

  17. #17
    Ultra King Parky Again's Avatar
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    doesn't a large choice fly in the face of sustainability (whatever that actually means). a large choice means you are likely to buy more than one - some people know no bounds to their jacket ownership (bloody planet destroyers they are), evironmenally friendly and any other "look aren't we wonderful" label a manufacturer wants to award itself.

    recycled fleece. excellent. is that cheaper than brand new nasty non-green fleece. are garments made with it any cheaper?not that i've noticed. so mycynic says you are just making yet more profittrying to play psycho games with people's consciouses.

    mention of paramo makes sense - and not because i like paramo. take buffalo and like manufacturers. an unchanged design not dependent upon the latest whizz bang can you spot the difference fabric whose jackets can last forever as there is nothing that can go wrong with them. are the fabrics paramo/buffalo and the like better for the environment all round? i don't know.

  18. #18
    Ultra King Milly.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TP View Post
    If you can't afford to buy new gear you can always make out you're holier than thou on the sustainability front. Afterall you do have to make things last.
    Yep. Being broke is obviously the only reason not to buy new gear Just popping out for some designer gaffer tape

  19. #19
    Initiate Nick P 10's Avatar
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    I agree that a large choice flies in the face of sustainability but even your beloved paramo has a large selection. Some are unbelievable though (I just counted 80 different jackets from Mammut, mind that does include softshells, vests, down jackets and all types of waterproofs) which does seem to be a rediculous amount.

    I am not sure I understand the logic behind your point about recycled fleece. Surely what matters is whether or not it is sustainable and environmentally better than a new fleece, no? I think you are right that there are some marketing in the green labelling of products but I think that some brands do take it serious. Usually it is a cost to them to source greener materials and manufacturers so actually it would be in their interest to NOT do it.

    As for Paramo, sure they have a good design, but I don't think they are the best (but that is another topic). Their design may remain unchanged but that doesn't mean that they don't make a lot of them! Most people don't change their jacket because it doesnt work anymore or there is something wrong with it. They change it because they want something new or a better technology or a different fabric. Longivity I don't think is the major driver in people buying a specific brand. Are they more environmentally friendly at Buffalo and Paramo? I don't know but I do wonder how much of the Nikwax sales (and consequently flushed down the drain) and use they are responsible for.

    I think that manufacturers who make an effort should be applauded for doing it... if it is indeed genuine.

  20. #20
    ‹bermensch Jake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike fae Dundee View Post

    £500 a week in benefits?!!!!

    WTF am i working?
    Some feckin' Daily Mail reader has hacked Mike's account

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