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Thread: Silk Filled Duvets

  1. #1
    Initiate Climbing Hamster's Avatar
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    Will walking the SCWP i had the pleasure of walking with 4 other people and during walking on 1 of the days the talk turned to sleeping bags.

    Jinni was thinking about using a 4.5 tog silk filled duvet instead of a full sleeping bag to save weight. having looked around on various websites John Lewis they had 1 that weighed a mere 400g for a single duvet.

    has anyone tried them??

    ideas and thoughts welcome

  2. #2
    Ultra King Mole's Avatar
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    never heard of them till now, but my initial questions would be:[*]would it likely have a white cotton cover? - not so good in damp/dirty conditions[*]how does it compress for packing[*]does compression damage the structure of the filling?[/list]I suspect the latter 2 reasons are why the outdoor companies haven't taken it up

  3. #3
    Initiate Climbing Hamster's Avatar
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    this is the stuff from the website

    Filled with fine, light 100% mulberry silk, these beautifully soft duvets are ideal for spring or summer. Each silk duvet is made individually, the silk floss being hand-layered using a criss-cross pattern to ensure the filling is evenly distributed.
    Not only does the silk content ensure these duvets are as light as can be, silk is also renowned for its breathability helping to regulate body temperature by trapping air next to the skin to keep the body warm in colder temperatures, or drawing it away to keep the body cooler when it's warm.

    Silk is naturally hypo-allergenic. Silk's resistance to dust mites makes it ideal for allergy sufferers and those that suffer from asthma and eczema. Care is also taken to ensure no chemicals are used in the production of these quilts.

    Brand John Lewis
    Fill power Not applicable
    Filling Natural
    Material 100% cotton sateen cover
    Season Spring / Summer weight
    Tog 3 - 4
    Washing instructions Spot clean only
    Weight 450 gsm

    i guess a silk bag liner could be used as a cover??

  4. #4
    Ultra King Martin Carpenter's Avatar
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    Well silk and stuff (Camel hair!) was used as an insulating material back in the day but multiple rather better options now....

    Really though I just don't believe the weight at all, not for useful warmth. Suspect its probably weight/square meter - their other duvets are certainly quoted that way.

    As for why, well down just will be a lot better on warmth/weight. And JL's 4.5 tog down quilt is 375g/m2. (so slightly more than double it for a total single quilt.).

    Even PHD's superlight (here, its pricy!) quilt is 375g and that will be hugely better on warmth/weight. Hence the cost

  5. #5
    Initiate Climbing Hamster's Avatar
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    well might look into that, as i have a neoair trekker, was thinking about the theramrest blankets

  6. #6
    Ultra King Martin Carpenter's Avatar
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    Ah, if quilts in general then also golite - here, here. And sundry cottage industry folk in the USA but a bit annoying to get hold of over here.

    The PHD thing isn't going (or trying) to be all that warm.

    The basic principle as viable seems to be well proven, although its arguable if it saves weight over a sleeping bag with a short/no zip or not as you do need a little more material & some sort of head insulation anyway.

  7. #7
    Ultra King Peter Clinch's Avatar
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    Really though I just don't believe the weight at all, not for useful warmth.

    But "useful warmth" in summer, especially somewhere like the SWCP, isn't very much.

    although its arguable if it saves weight over a sleeping bag with a short/no zip or not

    But a short zip or no zip sometimes makes a bag rather stuffy in fine, warm weather...

    you do need... some sort of head insulation anyway.

    Haven't been using any at home this summer, and haven't had the heating on. Didn't use any camping either back at the start of August. A down sleeping bag is great when you want serious warmth in a compact packeage, but they can be too much. And when down gets very spread out (inevitable if you have hardly any of it) it won't actually be that effective, especially as it'll tend to concentrate, so rather than a very small but even effect you'll perhaps tend to get spots of some and spots of none.

    I'm not coming to any conclusions here, just saying I don't think your basis for shottoing the silk down is really made.

    Pete.

  8. #8
    Ultra King Mole's Avatar
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    450g per square m makes more sense Martin

    Pete

    I think you may be unusual in not needing any bedding?

    I've never considered the SWCP particularly warm compared to anywhere else (lived near and camped along it most of my life!)

    This month I've slept in a tent at over 750m on a Welsh summit(as well as lower down), at 50m asl on our land (5 miles inland) for about 10 nights, and, for 5 nights within 300m of the SWCP in Cornwall. My own land was warmest place to sleep - weather conditions broadly similar - i.e. overcast/raining much of the time!

    Although day temps were warm in Cornwall, it was often (subjectively) just as cold at night as high up in Wales. I actually used more bedding one night. Moist cool air coming off the sea I guess.

  9. #9
    Ultra King Peter Clinch's Avatar
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    I think you may be unusual in not needing any bedding?

    I didn't mean I don't use bedding ATM, but that I don't use extra head insulation

    I've never considered the SWCP particularly warm compared to anywhere else (lived near and camped along it most of my life!)

    I'm not disagreeing with your findings, but climate is worked out over 30 year averages. The SE is warmer than the SW in summer but it's still warmer than most of the UK's "outdoor honeypots". But, as you found, that doesn't mean it can't be bastard cold on some days, whatever the 30 year averages say.

    Pete.

  10. #10
    Ultra King Martin Carpenter's Avatar
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    Which is fine Still not covering the head is unarguably one drawback of quilts vs sleeping bags. The weights for comparable quilts/very light bags seem to come up rather similar in practice.

    But I wasn't being sceptical cf quilts in general, principally the idea of a net 450g cotton outer, silk filled one being even plausible. Or at all warm should it be made. 900-1000g much easier to believe!

  11. #11
    Ultra King Mole's Avatar
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    der. I was obviously 'sleep reading' last night!

  12. #12
    Ultra King Peter Clinch's Avatar
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    Still not covering the head is unarguably one drawback of quilts vs sleeping bags.

    Not all sleeping bgas have hoods, but of those that do (most specialist ones) a fair point. But the hood on a pit is still stuff and if you don't need it then it's weight and bulk (and cost) wasted. And you can use a beanie or a Buff in bed which is lighter, simpler and cheaper and is potentially useful during the day. It has to be pretty nippy before I'll do up the hood on one of my bags: I much prefer a hat to being "shut in" (and I'm a slaphead, which means colder up top).

    Pete.

  13. #13
    Goon Lee Robert's Avatar
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    back in the day when buying from the us actually meant saving a few quid I brought a Jacks r Better no sniveller quilt. Really high quality, low weight and even has a slit/velco opening to use it as a poncho, although I never have in the field its nice to have the option. I prefer quilts cause tog for tog they tend to be lighter and I find them more comfy, no zips to break is added bonus. If my head gets cold I put my beanie on.

  14. #14
    Initiate Climbing Hamster's Avatar
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    just for the record here i was on there for 25 nights an our average night time temp was around 15c

  15. #15
    Ultra King Martin Carpenter's Avatar
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    That woolly hat could well do it then! Power stretch balclava or some such if you're worried perhaps.

    cf weight of quilts, yes they're definetly a light option. Lighter than zipless (or even short zip) sleeping bags though? Suspect not.

    Especially if you factor in the hood, which is objectively an unarguable non trivial loss of insulation. Yes insulated jacket hoods/Down balaclava's (tricky to get over here mind) can cover very well, or you might just not need as much head insulation if warm enough 'anyway' etc etc.But still, lets be objective (or not if you prefer!)

    Of course there are all sorts of other reasons that one might like/not like them! Comfort probably more important really. My zipless bag is in fact loose enough that its probably halfway to a quilt anyhow....

  16. #16
    Ultra King Peter Clinch's Avatar
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    Especially if you factor in the hood, which is objectively an unarguable non trivial loss of insulation

    It's unarguably a loss, but whether it is "non-trivial" depends very much on if you need it. I don't have a hood, or a hat, to sleep at home. Over the summer it's entirely likley that the house won't have been heated and many doors/windows left open, so the sleeping climate isn't actually that different from a tent. If I don't need a hood in one of those places, why do I need it in the other?

    cf weight of quilts, yes they're definetly a light option. Lighter than zipless (or even short zip) sleeping bags though? Suspect not.

    PHD Single Ultra Quilt, 375 g, Minim sleeping bag is actually lighter (345 g) while a Minimusis a real lead brick at 465g.

    There's not much in it, in other words, but it's not so much about weight as comfort. Maximising thermal efficiency may well be the name of a game for comfort in a snow cave but on a warm summer's evening comfort may well have other significant dimensions from simple "are you warm enough?". "Are you too warm?", for example, and with a zipless sleeping bag the warmth is rather an all-or-nothing option.

    At home I sleep under a quilt. Because it's more comfortable and convenient than a sleeping bag IME. Home has more insulation and may be heated on colder nights and that is a factor, but it's a bit of a moot point on a warm summer evening.

    Pete.

  17. #17
    Ultra King Matt C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Clinch View Post
    ....... and with a zipless sleeping bag the warmth is rather an all-or-nothing option.

    Not exactly what my experience tells me - leave the hood undone, leave your head out, leave your shoulders out, leave your arms out, push the bag part way down your chest or to your waist - plenty of variation possible between all or nothing without the need for a zip.

  18. #18
    Ultra King Mole's Avatar
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    matt. that wouldn't work for me. (and probably other skinny types) at all. the first place to get too hot and uncomfortable for me is always my core. i.e. stomach and groin area. i can be comfortable with that uncovered but need my shoulders and feet to be warm. Before i got my quilt, i used to have my sleeping bag zip open from the bottom more often than the top.,...

  19. #19
    Ultra King Mikel el Bastardo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Carpenter View Post

    cf weight of quilts, yes they're definetly a light option. Lighter than zipless (or even short zip) sleeping bags though? Suspect not.

    I can't understand this Martin. Take the PHD Minim at 345gfor example. If has to be lighter if you remove the hood, and most of the base? Maybe 250g?

    I wouldn't call the PHD quilt a proper backpacking quilt. It looks like something you would use on your bed.

  20. #20
    Ultra King Peter Clinch's Avatar
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    Not exactly what my experience tells me - leave the hood undone, leave your head out, leave your shoulders out, leave your arms out, push the bag part way down your chest or to your waist - plenty of variation possible between all or nothing without the need for a zip.

    Fair comment, and what I do with my Dewline, but I think you see the point. Try leaving a big vent at your feet without scissors, or sleeping with your head at the bottom, for example. No zip gives a lot fewer options for venting.

    Pete.

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