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Thread: Garmin Foretrex 401

  1. #21
    Ultra King Parky Again's Avatar
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    als. tracklogs will let you call thing whatever you want - but this is only at the point of transfer between software and gps. if you want waypoints you have to load it into your gps and load it back to tracklogs to get waypoints for each point. tracklogs doesn't really use waypoints at all. they are a user choice. if you want useful waypoiints then these are created seperately and transferred.

    it's as confusing as hell at first as you try to get rid of the illogicality of routes and tracks from your head.

  2. #22
    Super Moderator captain paranoia's Avatar
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    > capn p - i think our posts have just crossed - did you see mine pointing out that there already is a Route Name feature in WtP?

    Yes, crossed postings, but I'd already said that WtP allows named routes, and suggested that might be Hugh's solution, and, after a little GPX file investigation, decided that Garmins didn't seem to be able to cope with the concept of non-unique route point names within a named route file.

  3. #23
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    > Garmins didn't seem to be able to cope with the concept of non-unique route point names within a named route file

    They do cope, and they can parse the GPX file. If you send a second what you callroute point named "RT1" it gets stored as a waypoint "RT1 1", and shows on the route as that. If you send a third RT1, it will get stored as a waypoint named "RT1 2" and shown on it's route as that.That's the source of the confusion. The routes transferred are quite correct in terms of legs and grid references, just the names of waypoints get modified. Allowing the user control over the waypoint prefix as suggested, rather than forcing "RT" would help avoid this.

    Incidentally, it is quite valid for waypoints to exist independantly of routes, and for routes to be constructed by linking them up. I have many routes thatinclude "LODCP" "DERRYL" for example. (Linn of Dee Car Park .. Derry Lodge ..). Guys who use GPS to hunt or survey might not use routes at all, but they'll certainly make many waypoints - they're just named locations.

    Just noticed you can output the route as a track - this might suit some people better, for the reasons that Parky says.

  4. #24
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    ALS wrote



    I don't think so! So far, I have created from WTP and walked about ten routes. Each route was given a distinctiive name eg Berkhamsted 1, Berkhamsted 2 (this was a circular walk which I divided into two legs to avoid confusing the Foretrex). When I access the Waypoints Page, the list of waypoints does not show up labelled 'Berkhamsted' but as RT 1 etc. Furthermore, if there are more than six waypoints in the route then another sequence of waypoints appears.

    So far, I have more than 100 waypoints stored in the Foretrex which has a maximum capacity of 500 so I need to weed them from time to time.

    I shall probably use my receiver differently from the way that you use yours. At the moment, I'm experimenting so that I understand its limitations so I'm using it on routes with which I'm so familiar that I don't even have to refer to the map. When the experimental period is over, I shall just use it in circumstances where I might need navigational backup.

    Nor shall I store tracks. The Foretrex will only save ten, plus with twenty routes, and I have more than seventy walks on my website.

    Thanks to everyone for their help. I shall be agog to see if Bill and the good Captain can improve the parsing of the GPX file. My son would be amazed if he could read how confidently I use these technical terms!

  5. #25
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    Eh? Can't see the quote Hugh ..

    But, just in case it helps, currently when you create a route in WtP and transfer it to your Garmin, WtP alwaysuses the same naming sequence for waypoints, RT1, RT2, RT3 and so on.

    This creates a problem for the Garmin when you send two routes to it - it can only allow one waypoint called RT1, so what does it do with the second one? It's strategy is to call it "RT1 1". That's how you end up with waypoints like RT1 1 , RT1 2 and so on.

    The way Garmin waypoints work is that they exist separately from Routes, so there's no reason for them to show up as labelled "Berkhamstead".

    I believe WtP may soon aquire a feature whereby instead of being lumbered with "RT" as the waypoint prefix, you will be allowed to choose one. In which case you might choose "B" for Berkhamstead walk 1, "C" for C2C and so on. Then your waypoints will show up grouped together; B1, B2 ... C1, C2 etc, which will hopefully confuse you less. HopefullyWtP will also put some leading zeros in the numeric bit, so that theyappear inthe order you expect.You might in any case find that it is even better to give waypoints names that are more meaningful - "KELD", "BRIDGE", "NEVIS", etc.. - this canhelp when navigating, especially when you are using it as navigating backup.

  6. #26
    Ultra King Parky Again's Avatar
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    possibly not applicable hugh. do your routes actually show as Berkhamsted 1, Berkhamsted 2 on the foretrex? i have older model garmins and theer is a limit in the number of letters you can use in aroute name; i regret i am unable to recall how many.

    it may be that your route names are too long and they are being truncated which would give identical route names which the garmin tries to sort out in both route name and waypoint name.

  7. #27
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    Also Hugh, if you wish to see the waypoints grouped by Route, and in route order, then just go to the ROUTES page and select the Route. Lo and behold, you will see the name of the Route at the top of the screen, with a list of waypoints underneath it in the correct order. Isn't that what you want?

  8. #28
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    Here's the missing quote, ALS:


    Parky wrote:


    Yes, they do!

    ALS wrote

  9. #29
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    Hi Hugh - you are right, it would certainly be useful if WTP could show waypoint names on the map when it printed it. Hopefully it will evolve to do so.

    Meantime I have a suggestion which might make things easier for you and avoid some of the confusion you have with all the "RT1 2" type waypoints.

    When you click "Export" to Garmin but BEFORE you click SAVE in WTP you should see a window of what probably will strike you as gobbledegook - this is the GPX file. However if you inspect it carefully you will see several lines of the form

    "Rt1"

    "Rt2"

    and so on.

    If yousimply edit the "Rt1" "Rt2" to,(for example) "B01", "B02"and then click SAVE to send it to your garmin, youshould then find that the waypoints on the Garmin for that route are nowB01, B02 etc. For another routeuse "C01", "C02" etc. This will then give you waypoint namesthat are organised as you would wish on the Waypoints page - ie in Route order. It is a bit fiddly, but since you are now a computer wizard, I'm sure you can manage. It will give you a usable workround until WTP is beefed up.

  10. #30
    Super Moderator captain paranoia's Avatar
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    > Incidentally, it is quite valid for waypoints to exist independantly of routes, and for routes to be constructed by linking them up.

    Apart from the concept of linking such named points up, I don't disagree:

    "Whilst arbitrary wapoints are indeed possible and sensible for stand-alone use, when combined with mapping software and GPX routes, they don't make a great deal of sense, as it's rare that mapping software will link together a set of pre-existing waypoints."

    You could use a mapping system and create a lot of arbitrarily-named waypoints that appear in your mapping system, and can be incorporated into a route. But I suspect most people won't bother, and will just create a route from scratch, adding route points to make a route that follows a particular path (e.g. like WtP does). But maybe I'm wrong, and people spend ages crafting named waypoint sets, or pulling them in from external sources.

    > Also Hugh, if you wish to see the waypoints grouped by Route, and in route order, then just go to the ROUTES page and select the Route. Lo and behold, you will see the name of the Route at the top of the screen, with a list of waypoints underneath it in the correct order. Isn't that what you want?

    That does seem to sound like what Hugh wants to do. Thanks for playing with the Garmin to see what it does; something I can't do, I'm afraid.

    I think one of the problems we're having is that the Garmin treats route points as genuine waypoints, and the arbitrary waypoint listing isn't very helpful with automatically-generated route points. So it's probably best not to look at the waypoint list, but to use the Route page, and select the route in question.

    Other than that, I'd suggest that Hugh clears his entire waypoint store in the Garmin before loading up the route he wants to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by ALoveSupreme View Post

    Messing around editing GPX files is a dodgy proposition
    Quote Originally Posted by ALoveSupreme View Post

    If yousimply edit the "Rt1" "Rt2" to,(for example) "B01", "B02"and then click SAVE to send it to your garmin
    ;-)

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ALoveSupreme View Post

    If yousimply edit the "Rt1" "Rt2" to,(for example) "B01", "B02"and then click SAVE to send it to your garmin
    ;-)[/QUOTE] I've tried this but it appears not to work. The revised file transfers to the receiver but when I open the route all the waypoints have reverted to the original RT1 etc.

  12. #32
    Ultra King Parky Again's Avatar
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    up to a point capt and depending upon your software. with tracklogs waypoints are created seperately (by yourself or imported or whatever) and you can choose which you wish to export with your "path" (done by selecting a distance from the path).

    the ones you create for yourself are usually "path" highlights e.g. tricky nav on a turn or direction which are superimposed over the "path" in the gps unit - switching display waypoints on. you may, of course decide to goto any of them too.

    whilst all this doesn't help hugh at all (sorry hugh!) it should highlight that you can make the gps do more or less exactly what you want it to do and you are not constrained by what software says.

    mapping software, i think, is really just that. for mapping. linking with a gps device is a bit of an afterthought and the ideas and procedures are firmly stuck in the past when gps was very basic with no memory to speak of. it's a bit like discovering you can use a usb external hard drive instead of using cds to store data. and then realise the external disk becomes rather more than just a data backup solution.

    oh dear. i've now confused myself and no doubt everyone else...

  13. #33
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    Hugh - you are right, editing the GPX file in the way I suggested doesn't seem to have any effect. I should have tested it before suggesting it. Apologies; my excuse is that it was in fact the captains suggestion. It just doesn't work. You probably would have to save the GPX file somewhere, edit it, then transfer it. (It would be better to do this in any case).

    Capt - a) see above. Not dodgy at all if it doesn't work! b) in practice, (using memorymap), I tendto create a route from a mix of existing waypoints and new ones.I will often change the names of waypoints where this adds meaning - DERRYL, LUIBEG, BENNEVfor example. Remember that (unlike a WtP user)I'll have dozens of routes already in from which to'borrow' waypoints.It is quite common for differentroutes to share waypoints - many hills have the same walk in for example. c) I've now had a wee play with WtP; imo you could make it more helpful to people who wish to use Garmins routes by 1. allowing a route prefix, 2. padding the numeric bit of the waypoint with one or two '0's, 3. printing the waypoint on the map/route card.

    Parky - you're right about tracks, but Hugh doesn't want to use them and I have to say that I still prefer to use Routes/Waypoints myself on my Garmin - I just like the way they split a route into legs.

    P.S. Capn/Hugh - I've just tried Exporting the GPX file from WtP to a file, editing it, changing the RT0 etc, Importing it back - no luck; WtP changes things back to RT0, RT1 .. so you would need to find a way of using the Garmin communicator independantly of WtP if you wish your edits to survive. One such is www.takitwithme.com

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Westacott View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ALoveSupreme View Post
    <blockquote class=quote>

    If yousimply edit the "Rt1" "Rt2" to,(for example) "B01", "B02"and then click SAVE to send it to your garmin
    ;-)
    I've tried this but it appears not to work. The revised file transfers to the receiver but when I open the route all the waypoints have reverted to the original RT1 etc.</blockquote>
    Hugh - if you care to check your mail I've sent you a simple solution for changing the waypoints that I have tested with WtP and a Garmin. It should help to give you a much more manageable set of waypoints and routes.

  15. #35
    Mini Goon Duncan Do's Avatar
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    Hi guys,

    I know this thread has been dormant for a while but I thought it better to keep my questions within the same thread. I hope it gets picked up by someone!

    I have downloaded a set of waypoints from someone else and copied them over to the 401, however, as per one of the earlier posts, it doesn't seem that they've made it in to a 'route' file. Is there a piece of software that will convert a set of waypoints into a 'route'? It seems the only other option is to go through all 300 of the waypoints on the 401 and link them manually.

    This would be particularly difficult for one set of waypoints as they have been ordered alphabetically by place name when on the 401 and I don't know the order they should go in.

    Also, am I right in thinking that if you want to follow a set of waypointsI should hit 'go to' the first one and the 401 will automatically start following the rest?

    Finally, if I have downloaded waypoints for a multi day walk is it possible to split them up in to individual 'days' so that I know how long I would have to go on any given day rather than the distance to the end of the whole walk?

    Thanks,

    Duncan

  16. #36
    Ultra King Parky Again's Avatar
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    you need to save the waypoints into the gps as a route. then you just navigate the route by pointing to the start of it.

    the waypoints you have loaded are just a set of waypoints.

  17. #37
    Mini Goon Duncan Do's Avatar
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    Thanks Parky,

    I know that this is the case but how do I do it? If I have a set of waypoints how do I turn it into a route without needing to link all the waypoints manually in the 401?

  18. #38
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    Waypoints and routes are different things to Garmin. A route is an arbitrary sequence of waypoints. Waypoints can exist on a Garmin without being part of any route. You haven't got sufficient information to link the waypoints you have downloaded into distinct routes. So, best bet is to go back to the source of the waypoints and see if you can download the routes rather than just the waypoints, (though the routes will include the waypoints).

    If that doesn't work out, I'd probably try and upload the waypoints into grough route (it's good, and a trial version is free) link them into a route, and transfer to my Garmin that way.

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