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Thread: Stalking restrictions

  1. #1
    Mini Goon Bob Mahon's Avatar
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    Does anybody have any knowledge re. access restrictions in these areas. We are planning to walk from Inverie through to Torridon from the start of September. This will include the area South of Glen Shiel which doesn't seem to be taking part in the Hillphones scheme this year. Will probably want to include some tops / ridge routes en route.

  2. #2
    ‹bermensch Lindsay Boyd's Avatar
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    Knoydart Foundation - tel no. 01687 462 242 will give you information for thier area. They also have a leaflet with phone numbers for adjoining estates.

    The booklet Heading for the Scottish Hills has Estate details but was last published in 1996.

    The web site Who Owns Scotland also has Estate details.

  3. #3
    Mini Goon Bob Mahon's Avatar
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    Thanks Lindsay, I think that's what we'll be doing, starting with the Foundation office and getting contact details ahead as we move along.

    Still haven't found anything re. South Glen Shiel - we're hoping the people at Kinlochhourn can advise us!

    Does seem to be a lack of co-ordinated information available - I'd have thought this would be an ideal thing to be web based - contact details overall range of dates when stalking will take place etc. Did see something about a new database on the MCofS website but couldn't find anything when I looked.

    I have read the Scottish Outdoor Access Code over the weekend (all 133 pages!). Will be interesting to see if information is published by using signs and in accordance with the code as we make our way through estates. I expect Knoydart Foundation to be spot on from previous experience of Inverie and their website details.

    Bob

  4. #4
    ‹bermensch Lindsay Boyd's Avatar
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    Bob The Soth Cluanie Ridge (north side) is Glenshiel and Cluanie Estate tel no. 01599 511282. Unfortunately to the south of the ridge it adjoins 4 other Estates so it depends on your route who you have to contact.

    I have found on the whole most estates to be reasonable as per the code but don't expect too much signage.

  5. #5
    Mini Goon Bob Mahon's Avatar
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    Many thanks for that Lindsay,

    I didn't have the Cluanie estate number at all.

    We are looking to head NW from Kinloch Hourn using the path (that peters out on the maps) up Allt Coire Mhalagain, skirt round the Forcan ridge to Meallan Odhar, then probably follow the ridge down to Shiel bridge. Don't too much mind changing this however as long we don't end up slogging down the main road!

    It would be useful to have a map showing the estate boundaries!

  6. #6
    Goon Simon  Parkes's Avatar
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    Hillphones map. Unfortunately a limited selection, as you note. Not sure why that is. I also noticed that the Glenshiel and Cluanie Estate isn't in Hillphones this year. Just seems to be creating work for themselves, and us.

  7. #7
    Mini Goon Bob Mahon's Avatar
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    Yes Simon, no sign of Glen shiel on Hillphones this year - I Tried ringing the number on an earlier Hillphones leaflet but just get a BT message saying the number doesn't take incoming calls

  8. #8
    Mini Goon The Echidna's Avatar
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    I know we are a courteous bunch, so we would seek permission to cross land in the shooting season, as common sense would suggest, but if denied passage what is the situation ?Can you still use/walk on the land whilst a shoot is in the area (obviously you might get shot) using your right to roamaccess. Or does the Landowner have a legal right to remove you from his land & get you slammed up ???

  9. #9
    Mini Goon Bob Mahon's Avatar
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    Access in Scotland is granted to most land under the Land Reform Act 2003, but only if the rights are exercised responsibly. You can't for example, demand to walk across a football pitch when a game is in progress! In the same way, ruining a shoot because you knowingly walk into an area would, I think, be not acceptable. But equally, the landowner has responsiblity to ensure you know what is happening and offer alternative routes if possible. It seems to me that compromise is what is called for - next week, I intend to find out if this works!

  10. #10
    ‹bermensch Lindsay Boyd's Avatar
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    I have never found Hillphones of much use to be honest.

    I prefer using the book Heading for the Scottish Hills or the web site Who Owns Scotland

    Some of the Estates also have web sites and I use their contact details to ascertain access restrictions if any.

    I believe that we as walkers must be reasonable (as should estates) or we could in time loose access rights if estate owners and managers can prove walkers are irresponsible. It is up to us to show otherwise and as said before I find most keepers/estates appreciate a call.

  11. #11
    Goon Reiver's Avatar
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    I would of thought it reasonable to assume that if an area is not included in the hill phone scheme, then there is no shooting and no restrictions!

  12. #12
    Goon Simon  Parkes's Avatar
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    Lol. Sounds reasonable to me too. The reverse of what Lindsay said; if estates aren't reasonable they lose their right to restrict access!

  13. #13
    ‹bermensch Lindsay Boyd's Avatar
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    I don't think it is practical to have all estates on the hill phones brochure as it would be impossible to produce free to walkers etc. The book Heading for the Scottich Hills has 141 pages so one could asume that if all estates were on the hillphones the booklet would be around 100 pages, an expensive booklet to produce and print and would walkers pay for it?

    Some other means of contact is required if the book which hasn't been published since 1996 is no longer available. Obviously a web site could fill that gap but then someone needs to maintain it and collate all the contact details or update it daily as Estates phone in with their stalking information. The MCofS would be a good starting point but I doubt if they have the staff to maintain it.

    We do need some central contact for stalking information but I'm not sure of the most practical solution bearing in mind that stalkers aren't normally available till late evenings and walkers need to know in advance where they can legally go.

  14. #14
    Mini Goon The Echidna's Avatar
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    Who woud pay for it ??? The Estates from the profit they make selling shooting trips into the wilderness..... I am sure a small contribution from all estates, could be negotiatedso they can be safe in the knowledge their shoots will not be disturbed.

  15. #15
    Mini Goon Bob Mahon's Avatar
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    I think what Lindsay is saying is in the spirit of the Land Reform Act - try for compromise rather than confrontation. Eventually, this will lead to a better understanding on all sides.

    I agree, it only takes a telephone call. But this does bring me back to information access. Hillphones is very limited, the Who Owns Scotland site seems to be having ongoing problems with maps and as far as I know 'Heading for the Scottish Hills' hasn't been updated for quite sometime. Anybody know anything about the suggested database on the MCofS website?

  16. #16
    ‹bermensch Lindsay Boyd's Avatar
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    I have just been on the phone to a Estate in the west coast regarding a guided walk I am doing next week. The gent was very polite and thanked me for my call as he says most hillwalkers never bother. He also made me aware of where the shooting parties may be and the side of the hill to affoid.

    One short phone call and we are both happy.

  17. #17
    Mini Goon Bob Mahon's Avatar
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    That's good to hear Lindsay - there's hope yet

    I intend to be doing that where possible next week as we make our way (hopefully) from Inverie northwards.

    Is it useful to phone several days in advance?

  18. #18
    ‹bermensch Lindsay Boyd's Avatar
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    Bob in my case I need to know a few days in advance what the stalking situation is as the night before or even that morning is of no use to me or my clients, hence I don't use the Hillphones service. Only on a couple of occasions haveI been asked to phone back later as the stalker wasn't aware if he had any shooting parties on the day of my walks.

    At least I know my route well in advance and can plan accordingly.

  19. #19
    Mini Goon Bob Mahon's Avatar
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    I think what Lindsay is saying is in the spirit of the Land Reform Act - try for compromise rather than confrontation. Eventually, this will lead to a better understanding on all sides.

    I agree, it only takes a telephone call. But this does bring me back to information access. Hillphones is very limited, the Who Owns Scotland site seems to be having ongoing problems with maps and as far as I know 'Heading for the Scottish Hills' hasn't been updated for quite sometime. Anybody know anything about the suggested database on the MCofS website?

  20. #20
    Mini Goon Bob Mahon's Avatar
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    That's good to hear Lindsay - there's hope yet

    I intend to be doing that where possible next week as we make our way (hopefully) from Inverie northwards.

    Is it useful to phone several days in advance?

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