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Thread: Group Conduct

  1. #1
    Mini Goon Graham Coe's Avatar
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    Last weekend i spent in wales at Dolgam campsite and i was amazed at some of the groups that stayed there. Over the course of 3 days there were quite a few private school groups and D or E groups. Nothing out of the ordinary there but what i was amazed at was the absolute lack of supervision and the conduct of the students. On the first evening i was there a private school group decided that they owned the campsite and began running around, shouting and abusing the other campers. What was the last straw though was that the leaders of the group had set up their tents a fair distance away from their students and did not seen to take any notice or indeed care about their students conduct. In the morning we found something even worse, The students had decided that they wanted something to sit on so they vandalised the roadside slate wall by taking parts of it out and taking them to their tents, to top it off when they packed up and left they just left the stones in the middle of the camp site. This group and its leaders had no respect for the area or other people using the site. Other groups turned up other the course of the weekend and although none of these vandalised the wall, none of them seemed to have any kind of disapline at all. Im an outdoor activities instructor myself and i would feel ashamed if any of my groups acted like that. Surely the leaders / instructors should have pride in the groups they lead and make sure that they respect other people around them. I felt sorry for the owners of the site as if they have to put up with this kind of vandalism and disruption then its a wonder they stay open. On 3 seperate occasions i had one of the owners come up to me while i was sitting outside my tent and ask me if the groups had been too noisy during the night.
    Has anyone else experianced this kind of lack of supervision and leadership by the supervising staff or the students?
    Does anyone have any suggestions on ways we can help to improve the levels of respect?

  2. #2
    Goon Chris Harper's Avatar
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    Now you see this is where two German Shepherds comes in handy... I'd have walked up to the leaders and had a word.. GSD's in hand of course.. failing that.. approach the animals you talked about and remind them that my dog's attack on command..
    Sorry to hear of your horrid experience.. never come across anything like this myself.. thankfully.

  3. #3
    Mini Goon Graham Coe's Avatar
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    It wasnt a horrid experiance, it was actually quite amusing to see just how bad some group leaders can be and looking at ways to improve my own group control skills. i just found it amazing how the leaders of private school groups and especially D of E groups can just pretend they dont notice their groups acting in a way that would ashame anyone else.
    The idea about the dogs is a good one but knowing my luck if i got dogs they would take up more room in my tent than me haha

  4. #4
    ‹bermensch
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    It's clearly the site owner's fault for not providing enough activities to keep young people occupied. Unless parents do something now there will be many more acts of vandalism and instances of poor behaviour amongst school parties which could easily have been prevented by better funding and provision of resource centres, drop-out opportunities, skateboarding rinks and i-pod cafes.


  5. #5
    Initiate The Doctor's Avatar
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    I would have found out what the name of the school was, [normally on the side if the minibus], then had a word with one of the teachers followed up with a call first thing on Monday to the school to complain that their pupils had ruined my weekend, and to enquire if they would like to refund my site fees.
    Hopefully the owners wont allow them back, but unfortunately the problem will go somewhere else.
    If the kids from the school I work at vandalised a site they would get an almighty b*ll*cking and probably dropped from the DofE course.
    In my opinion, private school groups tend to have the worst behaved pupils. They would be better going to dedicated outdoors centres like Colomendy.

  6. #6
    Goon
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    and of course for the enjoyment of the locals and dour well behaved other campers a whipping post complete with "cat O nine tails" to which the leaders of said groups are taken each morning for a bit playful flogging. Helps moral and inspires good well balanced social behaviour.

  7. #7
    Ultra King Ddyrchafedig Gyrrwr (Beic Modur)'s Avatar
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    One thing that strikes me here is that the owners of the site seem to be negligent too.

    If they are asking others if they were disturbed during the night, then they must have some idea of what is occurring. Is it a case of "take the money and run" with no regard to controlling unruly elements on the site, particularly those causing vandalism to local walls etc.

    The campsite owners should bear some responsibility for the behaviour of their tenants and it sounds to me as if they need to tighten up a bit!



  8. #8
    Mini Goon Graham Coe's Avatar
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    I dont think the owners were being negligent, I have stayed there a few times and have spoken to one of the owners many times. They take very good care of the site and the washing facilities there and make sure it is a place people want to stay. I think its one of the better camp sites around in the area. I think he did have a word to the different group leaders because they did seem to leave the morning after the problems and didnt return. What was strange was the amount of different groups who were all unruly and had no respect. I felt sorry for the owner who had to keep dealing with the problems.
    I definatly dont think that Dolgam is a place where they just take the money and run.

  9. #9
    Goon
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    My first posting was tongue in cheek but if you take a group out it is up to you to look after the people in that group and you are the person responsible for the behaviour of that group, not the person who owns or runs the campsite or hostel. Too many schools seem to forget this and from what I have seen too many (but not all) teachers are just after a cheap easy holiday with a good booze up and no comeback.

  10. #10
    Goon Chris Harper's Avatar
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    I don't want to hijack your thread, but we stayed at a camp site in Keswick over easter and had a great time.. but..
    On our final day we woke to a family of two adults, 2 kids who had absolutly no idea on camp site etiquette. Awake at 5.30am, by 6.15 they were having conversations between themselves in loud voices, clattering around thier tent almost as if they were the only people on the site..
    I know we were not the only people who were not happy.. in the end, about 10am I had a VERY loud conversation about them, well within their ear shot with another 3 fellow campers... the woman was glaring daggers at me but didn't come over to challenge us.
    In the end it's about accepting that everyone has the right to enjoy themselves.. whilst respecting everyone.
    . .and I'm with the Dr.. get onto the school maybe...

  11. #11
    Ultra King Ddyrchafedig Gyrrwr (Beic Modur)'s Avatar
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    You seem to be missing the point.

    Maybe Graham didn't put the circumstances over very well in the first post.

    Of course the leaders are responsible for the conduct of a group but the owners have a responsibility to everyone else to ensure that such groups are dealt with should they transgress.

    From Graham's further post, it seems that in this instance they did, but to be fair, that was not the impression form his first.

    If people think that the conduct of "clients" is not partly the responsibility of owners of properties then who would they think would be responsible for removing such miscreants in a cinema for example, - other customers??




  12. #12
    ‹bermensch John Bailey's Avatar
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    Having had to book sites for groups in the past it is exactly because of the kind of example quoted above that it can be difficult finding sites that will accept groups. I can remember as treasurer of a youth group feeling very proud when the owners of a site charged us about half what I was expecting to pay and then asked us to tell the group how well behaved they had been. They hadn't behaved any differently to normal or how I'd expect normal people to behave but the site owner had obviously experienced bad behavior before.

    I also remember a campsite in Edale where the owners told us about a group they'd had in where one of the kids had nicked his tractor to drive into the village.

  13. #13
    ‹bermensch John Bailey's Avatar
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    If it's a particularly posh private school then a letter to The Times might be a good plan too. Unfortunately, there is a class of private school in this country where parents send their kids just to get rid of them rather than because they believe they will get a better education.

  14. #14
    ‹bermensch Ben Bloggs's Avatar
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    I would have looked/asked for the name of the schools and complained directly to them.

    Saying that, I do remember on my practise DofE bronze expedition staying at a site where we were probably a bit disruptive (6 if us in a 3 man tent making a racket probably about 12 midnight). We were however quickly asked to get out of the tent - wearing just what we were to sleep in, generally a pair of boxer shorts - where we got an absolute b*ll*ck**g from our geography teacher (generally a pretty quite and friendly young teacher). I was actually scared at that point and we went to bed and shut up rather sharpish.

    Looking back now, it is quite funny to imagine 5 of us lads crawling out of the tent barefoot to stand in the damp grass, followed unwillingly by a single young lady in her pyjamas...

  15. #15
    ‹bermensch AlisonS's Avatar
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    You must have been near me then Graham! I heard the din on Friday too and it went on for a very long time. I too wondered where the supervisors were.
    But the thing that disturbed me the most was that lamb that had obviously lost it's mother. It bleated for what seemed like an eternity and she made no effort to respond. I think sheep should take responsibility for their behaviour and be reprimanded for poor parenting.

    :-P

  16. #16
    Ultra King Ddyrchafedig Gyrrwr (Beic Modur)'s Avatar
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    Surly the farmer should "shoulder" his part of the responsibility of ensuring the lamb didn't make so much noise, daring to disturb the campers??

    What I think must have happened was that the unruly public school toffs must have forgotten to pack the mint sauce !!






  17. #17
    Mini Goon Graham Coe's Avatar
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    where were you camped Alison. i was with 2 friends camped by the wall by the road in a green karrimor tent with a blue and white one next to me and a green land rover with white roof. Just interested to see if i noticed your tent haha. i remember hearing the lamb too, i did wonder what was going on myself.

  18. #18
    ‹bermensch AlisonS's Avatar
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    I was the other side, by the stream in one of those ten-second pop-up tents from Decathlon. A green, grey and yellow swirly pattern. But I didn't arrive until 10:30 pm on friday and was packed up again by 9 am on saturday. If you blinked you'd hve missed me.

  19. #19
    Mini Goon Graham Coe's Avatar
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    i must have blinked and missed you, never mind, its good to know that i wasnt the only one to notice the problem, you were lucky though because the saturday was just as bad if not worse haha. Good to know there are more people on here who use Dolgam too.

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